OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Competition => Topic started by: 2 shocks on July 05, 2009, 02:40:38 pm
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Just putting out there for your thoughts, we attended the nationals in Tassie last year & had a great time. We were lucky enough to win 2 titles Evo & Pre 85. On reflection & knowing the Tassie guys very well, it was a huge effort to bring the weekend together, catering for all classes. This is just a thought, but are we trying to be all things to everybody. What suits a Pre 75 bike obviously doesnt suit bikes with longer suspension & greater horsepower. Any thoughts on having Pre 78, Evolution & Pre 85 as a seperate event ie; different track & different day.
Mr Maico (Ken Baker) Vic
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There is always going to be ongoing discussing on this topic ...bring on the pre 90 ;) ;D
cheers
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Why not run pre 75 on friday before the track gets rough and give them shorter races.
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Lets not forget what happened in WA a few years back. The exact reverse of this topic.
The one year wear the planets aligned and i (along with a few others) was prepared for a holiday in the west and a chance to race in a National Title and then the rug is pulled from underneath us.
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Any thoughts on having Pre 78, Evolution & Pre 85 as a seperate event ie; different track & different day.
Mr Maico (Ken Baker) Vic
Sounds good. For Pre 78 and up there could be more races over the weekend (fewer classes), tracks could be suited better for the types of bikes (bigger jumps and rougher track) and races could be six laps or more.
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Lets not forget what happened in WA a few years back. The exact reverse of this topic.
The one year wear the planets aligned and i (along with a few others) was prepared for a holiday in the west and a chance to race in a National Title and then the rug is pulled from underneath us.
lets hope next time your expectations are met with a positive outcome. 8)
On another topic, I believe the class's for classic mx nats are now set in deep concrete in some abis.
cheers
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As long as our arseholes point to ground, there will be Classic Title/s that will either be;
1. All established classes inclusive of Evo, and Pre85
(or)
2. All bikes up to Pre75/Pre78, (As happened in WA)
but in the very short term there won't be two (2) seperate recognised Australian title event's in one year where the Pre78, EVO and Pre85 run as a seperate Australian Title.
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Why?
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I'm dissapointed that i diddn't get to WA, but i was even more dissapointed at the timing of the announcment to the eastern states that there was not going to be EVO events. I (like a lot of others) had been planning the trip since the announcement of the location.
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I like the thoughts as we have spoken on this through various threads previously. Manjimup next year would of been good with pre 75 say till lunch time Saturday and then everybody else after that until finish Sunday. Or pre 75 Sat and the rest Sunday. Would be good to see because I don't know whether 2 entirely separate events would help the cause.
Rossco
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Why?
My take only.
The Pre78 classes have been established for a long time and have a following with riders and people in positions that are seen by some (not me personally) to control the direction of the sport and they don't see that EVO & Pre85 are "Classic" class bikes. Have a read of some of the threads about this and you will understand the emotions that surround it. There are some people in Classic circles that simply refuse to accept or recognise that Pre85 even exists and EVO is seen as nothing more than bastardising good bikes to make something that never existed in the first place. Start up a conversation about Pre90 and you can feel the knives come out.
Whilst the Pre75 classes at a state level are dropping away, the National titles bring out Pre75 class riders that you don't see at a club or State level during the course of the year. As a result a once a year National Title is well attended and the "Spirit of the Era" is rekindled for another 12 months.
EVO & Pre85 are the new players on the team and have yet to properly establish the classes; you only need to look at the GCR's to understand this. (No age classes is a good example)
Another thorn in the jocks that rubs a lot of the older guys up is that EVO & Pre85 brings along a much younger, more hungry & aggressive rider. You only had to witness the jumping styles and tactics that some of the younger riders used at Classic Dirt and that was a non-competitive event.
Time will change the views, the mindsets and the construction of the GCR's, but it will take that, time. It's simply evolution (pardon the pun) of the sport.
Note: It will be intersting to see how the 2010 Title's at Broadford next year will unfold. I get the feeling that the Pre75/78 fraternity will see the track layout (regardless of what changes are made) as more a EVO/Pre85 and perhaps numbers might not be as good as say, Connondale.
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Is that for certain, the 2010 titles will be at Broadford???
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That what the most recent MA directors minutes elude to. Without going back to the document they have noted that the Broadford Bike Extravaganza will be held on a given weekend and the following weekend will be the National event. Just cant remember the date that was put forward.
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Quote:::Note: It will be intersting to see how the 2010 Title's at Broadford next year will unfold. I get the feeling that the Pre75/78 fraternity will see the track layout (regardless of what changes are made) as more a EVO/Pre85 and perhaps numbers might not be as good as say, Connondale.
yes it's going to be interesting times ahead for VMX.
It will be good to see the strength of the other National class's and how strongly they are supported in each state and at each Nationals...also the structure of how it's all done and run 8)
Definatley be an eye opener I think :o :P
cheers
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OK, time for my 2 bobs worth.
Bahnsey makes some valid points but as Bob Dylan said "The times are a changin".
At some time some one said what if we went from 4" suspension to let say 6" then 9", 12" etc.
Even back then some said it was unecessary, some said why do you need it but as the bikes evolved so did the sport.
If you stay still you die the same with sport. We may not have the numbers or the support to "Go it alone" but it will happen.
Not having a go at our classic mates but for the very argument Bahnsey says Evo plus is not accepted is the very reason the sport will flourish as classic may wane. More younger riders will ride a Evo + bike than a classic because they are a closer resemblance of what they ride today in horsepower and suspension.
Dont get me wrong I want classic to go on & on but most of its purist are getting on and will give it away at some stage and as much as I would like to keep it "Same old bikes, same old blokes" without the younger riders our bikes will become something you put in your bar, not an instrument of entertainment & excitement. I do agree that some dont ride within the spirit of the sport but that's not just reserved for our younger riders, something I have been accused of myself at times. My son has taken up the sport and loves it. He is definitely someone who rides within the spirit. So younger doesn't necessarily mean agressive. I wont name names but I reckon there are a few agressive ones in the older groups.
Back to the point. I'm for it but dont forget we get whingers within this group too that the tracks used are too "modern" for their bikes.
Monza is often labeled a bike wrecker and wheel detroyer but in my biased opinion it is more a case of poorly maintained bikes or rider ability. I am not saying that I am a great rider but I pick and choose what obstacles I will attack. At Wonthaggi 3 years ago my 250 blew a shock and broke the frame and my 125 expansion chamber split down the seam after I stuffed up a jump and landed heavily. Do I blame the track? Of course not. I blame 30 year old bikes and rider error.
If this idea gains momentum I can garantee Monza will be available although Broadford makes more sense from a logistics view.
I look back over this thread I seemed to have waffled a bit but in a nutshell, I'm all for it.
SSSHHIIICCCKKKK AAAHHHHHHH!!!!!! Melbourne bitter
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When you run the 2010 titles Johnny , you can propose all that and perhaps give it a try.
Wasp.. Kiss my arse.
This is a forum where everyone is entitled to an opinion, not just you.
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I think its a good idea.
It eliminates (any excuse for) a lot of the friction and discontent regarding track lay-out, track condition, and riders.
It would also mean a much less packed schedule for organsiers to try to fit into a weekend.
The Evo/Pre-85 event could even run pre-90 as a demo class if they wanted.
The main bad point that I can see, is that someone who wanted to chase championships in across both eras would need to attend two different events (meaning more time off work, etc).
On the flip side, it would mean that they could concentrate on a particular era all weekend without having to re-adjust to wildly different bikes during the event.
Edit: I'd include the pre-78 bikes with the pre-75 and older bikes, rather than with the Evo+ bikes. This makes sense based on the number of riders in the classes (at events I've been to), and the bikes (remembering that most pre-78 bikes are closer to 7/4" of travel than 12/12" that's typical of the Evo bikes).
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Yeah i was just talking about it the other day. In a perfect world , two separate events / titles to cater up to and including pre '75, and another catering for pre '78 to pre '85.
I wish that the titles coming up were split up with different eras on different days. That way you are riding the same bike/s all day. Next day, different bikes. I will also say that i do very little to help so i happily go with what has been organised by the great people that put in the hard yards ( hows that for brown nosing :D ? )
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A couple of observations I'd like to make:
1. In the USA, they often run the AHRMA nationals as two separate events, with Vintage (Pre 75) on the Saturday and then Post-Vintage (pre 85) on the Sunday. If they have the facility they also add some jumps and stuff to the Sunday track, to keep the later bikes interested. So people can run a pre 75 bike on the Saturday and then, if they feel like it, also run a pre 85 the following day.
2. I am very surprised that the Vintage Nats are being considered for Broadford - why not Barrabool, now that it has been given the lifeline by the VIC State government? Surely Barrabool is a better track for Vintage nats in any case?
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Sounds like the US have got it sorted with 2 seperate events over the weekend.
I'd have to agree with you that Barrabool is the better track for a Vintage National.
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Do you think that MA and it's local affiliate MV would be prepared to give away a National Event at their own faility over a club track, particulary when they have a club to run the event at Broadford.
That said, Barrabool is one of my favorite tracks but it miles away from the facility levels of Broadford.
Broadford can be made Pre75 friendly with the right machine operator. Weather and conditions aside, Classic Dirt showed that to be the case.
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I have to admit i did enjoy riding Broadford at CD4 but Barrabool has always been a favourite of mine since the Thumper Nats days. If Broadford has better facilities for an Aussie Title then maybe it's the way to go.
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but it miles away from the facility levels of Broadford.
I must have been to a different Broadford, or have they improved in the passed 2 years?
Viper666
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So who is going to step up to the plate for next years Nationals ? pre65-pre85 and sidecars,
time is of the essence. 8)
cheers
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So who is going to step up to the plate for next years Nationals ? pre65-pre85 and sidecars,
time is of the essence. 8)
cheers
Which year do you mean? If you mean 2010, I don't think there's any stepping up to do as I suspect it's already a done deal. ::)
If you mean 2011, my understanding is that our Western friends are keen to have a go again. ;D
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So who is going to step up to the plate for next years Nationals ? pre65-pre85 and sidecars,
time is of the essence. 8)
cheers
Which year do you mean? If you mean 2010, I don't think there's any stepping up to do as I suspect it's already a done deal. ::)
If you mean 2011, my understanding is that our Western friends are keen to have a go again. ;D
Thanks
2010-Lets hope your right ;D
2011- " " " " "
cheers
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I think it will be a while before it is in the West again?
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I think it will be a while before it is in the West again?
Why do you think that? ???
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I'll go west if its at the best track in OZ - MANJIMUMP 8)
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For someone to have a fair crack at a EVO / Pre85 only event the GCR's need to be tidied up. As the window of opportunity for rule changes has been missed for 2010, lets hope that the changes needed to stop riding up a class will be in place for the 2011 event. If not then Evolution might as well become redundant and just have a swag of Pre85 events. Will be interesting to see how many EVO bikes front the Pre85 line at Conondale.
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None I'm led to believe
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Ajay - the pre 75 club currently here is determined to remain pre75 and as such I can't see MA allowing a separate Nationals as was held here last time?
Various threads throughout the site have discussed the "apparent" need of splitting something that some see as becoming "cluttered" and then maybe WA will get just pre 75 again if it ever happens?????
Just a thought?
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While I understand that the strength of feeling within the WA pre 75 club towards later bikes is extremely strong, I also think they realise that a marriage of convenience with a WA pre 85 club might make Nationals in WA a possibility in the future. ;)
Surely that could be a win/win for VMX as a whole in the West in 2011? ;D
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Ajay - the pre 75 club currently here is determined to remain pre75 and as such I can't see MA allowing a separate Nationals as was held here last time?
Isn't that the whole point of this thread - to discuss the possibility of seperating the Nationals into two events.
I still think that pre-78 needs to be grouped in with the earlier era stuff, but I guess that doesn't fit with the WA philosophy.
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I think spliting them is a good idea. Thats my vote.
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Put your ideas into writing to your local State Controlling Body for them to implement. It's got to be the only way for the future I reckon.
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It would an interesting exercise to run the numbers in relation to the entries received for Connondale.
Seperate the numbers into say:
pre-78 including all classes before . ie pre-75 etc
Evo & pre 85
Then you could make some allowances or projections for the additional numbers if the era's were seperated.
Then you would quickly be able to assertain if would be financially viable to run seperate national events .
If the numbers dont run then its highly unlikely that any club will finance it.
So rather than speculating , how about someboby actually having a look at the available information and running the numbers to see if its actually viable.
A good club secretary could do this rather quickly.
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While I understand that the strength of feeling within the WA pre 75 club towards later bikes is extremely strong, I also think they realise that a marriage of convenience with a WA pre 85 club might make Nationals in WA a possibility in the future. ;)
Surely that could be a win/win for VMX as a whole in the West in 2011? ;D
I certain Rossco has been waiting for me to jump in. There is a serious push to start a pre85 club in WA (pre85MXWA), had a ride day last month, some 24 riders and 50 bikes, great day had
http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=8541.0
It's hoped to be able to work with the VMXWA club and maybe another club (possibly Manjimup) to secure the whole shooting match for WA at some time.
VMXWA (Pre 75) is very strong and runs excellent meeting. But cannot acommodate pre85's on it's course due to the degradation to the soil it would cause, so a compromise would need to be found, and hopefully having two clubs covering the whole spectrum and the support of some great tracks, i've already mentioned manjimup, but should not forget the scenic track of Collie, we can get our act together
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I agree with AJax that its a win/win situation if we stay together for Nationals events, at least till the time that the pre75 start to decline and become garage queens like the pre65.
more moving and shaking can be done together. :P
If MA thinks/believes/knows we are of split opinions they will just make the decision for us in the long run,no matter how many submissions are sent in..
cheers
oh and there is no dirt a bobcat,d10 or grader can't change ;D
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Shoey - just a small one - until numbers are sufficient for separate events (if it ever gets that high) simply splitting a 3 day meeting into both pre and post whatever (78???) is an option to be considered - all classes at one meet and tracks can be set up to cater for both sets of bikes and bodies. Say pre 78 until Sat lunch and then pre 85 after. I would have a go at both (as long as you promised not to laugh!!).
cheers
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I would have a go at both (as long as you promised not to laugh!!).
cheers
I'll laugh because I'd get to see the rear end of you all day!! And that's not a pretty sight!!
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No matter what your race format is, there are too many classes.
IMO the race format should be no more than 2 days.
I like having all the bike classes at one event but the age classes would have to go.
Cheers
Noel
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Events/nationals will be a testing time with say 2,3 or 4 club committees working together to make it all happen.Communication channels will be working over time.
A subcommittee of sorts may need to be in force. 8)
cheers
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I can't agree with canning the age group racing...most of the pre 75 guys (the only group that age groups apply to) are getting on a bit and it is good to be able to race against guys your own age as well....it is not pleasant to be smoked by some 30 year old who has no real interest in VMX...
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Ah, the age group debate... it was only a matter of time I guess ::)
BTW I'm getting hungry... anyone got some popcorn? ;D
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Ah, the age group debate... it was only a matter of time I guess ::)
BTW I'm getting hungry... anyone got some popcorn? ;D
Corn markets dropped-no popcorn too expensive ;D
Age races have been around since 95 ,being a good idea in that the whole family can race ie Clark Family. Keeping the vmx rider numbers up 8), but making a long race weekend.
cheers
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Age races have been around since 95
Sorry Alison, 1988. It was my idea and I'm bloody proud that it was the main element that drew old retired racers back in to the fold. May it last forever.
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I can't agree with canning the age group racing...most of the pre 75 guys (the only group that age groups apply to) are getting on a bit and it is good to be able to race against guys your own age as well....it is not pleasant to be smoked by some 30 year old who has no real interest in VMX...
Im 28, love VMX and u would more than likely smoke me.. can i race please mr?
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Yep..no problem MXMANIAC...you can race against guys your own age ... :) ..leave some room for us old guys to race against our own age as well... ;)
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I think age groups are a good thing. ;) It's nice to know that I'm probably not going to get t-boned by one of my peers. I also think it's a great leveler in that the bike (or how trick it is) isn't going to make so much of a difference. I just wish that the races were longer so as we can see who's been looking after themselves the last thirty years......and who hasn't.
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try 40 or so..........
viva the age class.
its the only way to exe..out the bike differentials, dont forget its a Nat Ridders trophy not a bike trophy right.