OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: maxvmx on March 09, 2014, 08:13:20 pm
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At the risk of being high level philosophical about this, the one thing we can do is ask for a receipt for all goods and services we receive. I know we all enjoy mates rates and cashies every so often but now is now and some people / groups / cultures are making more out of it than mates or a fair go ever fore saw. We’ve hit an iceberg ehere’s no sugar coating that, the least we can do is think where we’d like our grand kids to be – sorry for the philosophical
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Wha?
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?
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I've always said that... 8)
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Ta, exactly what I need,,
a thread that makes me feel like I am sane 8)
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And there I was thinking I drank too much......
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Ahh yes, the cash economy.....
Don't worry, the GST will knock that on the head !
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/stories/s132725.htm
Transcript
30/5/2000
Will the GST stem the cash economy?
MAXINE McKEW: One of the major selling points Federal Treasurer Peter Costello developed in his bid to win the public over to the Government's tax reform agenda was the claim that a GST would pick up tax evasion in the cash economy.
Unlike other countries that have introduced a GST, Australia has combined the new tax with a series of business tax reforms designed to clamp down on undeclared cash deals.
Now, only five weeks before the introduction of the GST, opinions are sharply divided over that claim.
Some believe it will be so effective in picking up undeclared income, especially in the small business sector, that tax receipts to the Commonwealth will be billions of dollars higher than the Budget estimates.
Others believe though that far from eliminating the black economy, the GST will cause an explosion in cash transactions.
We all know what happened.
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Ta, exactly what I need,,
a thread that makes me feel like I am sane 8)
Im with you on this one. Ever tried to;
- Buy a tyre from a second hand tyre dealer and pay with a card or get a receipt.
- Go to a food court in a shopping centre and pay with a card or get a receipt.
- Get a receipt when you pay cash at any sort of building related business.
- Go to a market of any size anywhere in Australia and ask for reciept for the items purchased.
and dont get me started on Carnies.....
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Food courts are an interesting case, they are 'taxed' worse than anyone by shopping centre owners. Till has to be connected to centre management, rent is calculated on turn over, your required to do fit outs by contractors appointed by the owner and last but not least your required to update the shop at the owners request. Which is why you just find chain stores staffed by kids in shopping centres everywhere except the food court.
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AHH the old not fair Koala Bear! ::)
Remember this one, " Its only a rort if your not involved"
I hope we're all declairing any profit we make on our bikes. ;)
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there are legal ways of reducing your chunk of tax,you just need to look around and find them unless you're happy paying it to the ATO. People will always avoid paying tax,don't get annoyed,get smarter.
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Who's name and A.B.N. do you expect to get on the tax invoice.
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A bit of cash is the grease in the gears of the economy. Sooner or later it gets taxed, but in the mean time it goes around and greases a few gears. Think of it as a stimulus package. Fred the chippy get's a cash job. he can't bank it, so he buy's the wife some new white goods and tax gets paid. The rest he pays the panel beater to finally get his car painted. So the panel beater has some cash that he gives to the motor trimmer to get the new bimmini on his boat. The motor trimmer takes his wife on a holiday and saves his marriage, he also stimulates the tourist industry and his money get's taxed. So the Government has got it's cut. Unfortunately they like to tax it ten times as it goes around rather than six.
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Well said.
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A bit of cash is the grease in the gears of the economy. Sooner or later it gets taxed, but in the mean time it goes around and greases a few gears. Think of it as a stimulus package. Fred the chippy get's a cash job. he can't bank it, so he buy's the wife some new white goods and tax gets paid. The rest he pays the panel beater to finally get his car painted. So the panel beater has some cash that he gives to the motor trimmer to get the new bimmini on his boat. The motor trimmer takes his wife on a holiday and saves his marriage, he also stimulates the tourist industry and his money get's taxed. So the Government has got it's cut. Unfortunately they like to tax it ten times as it goes around rather than six.
I'm with you there....It all goes around the complete circle eventually. We pay tax every time we buy anything from a shop or grocery store.
When the GST came in, the wholesale tax of the then 10% was supposed to be removed. It didn't happen. We ended up with a double tax on just about everything.
The bit that really gets under my skin is the ATO always go after the little business for every cent they can get out of it while people with gazillions like Rinehart and co whinge and moan about how much they have to pay the work force while they pay as little tax as is possible. They dig a big friggin hole in the ground, pull out the good stuff, sell it overseas and then complain about having to pay tax for the mess they make of the landscape while they make more money in a week than most of us will ever see in a lifetime.
Let cashies continue to keep the wheels greased I say, before we end up with the cashless economy the bastards want.
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I recall the news feeds from the Premiers conference called when the GST was first mooted. They all headed to Canberra to blow off their collective anger at the then Prime Minister ( Howard?) They all hated the idea and wanted it canned. By 10.00am when they came down for morning tea, they were all smiles a mile wide....they had been told what they stood to gain and how much cash was going to enter the coffers, on it's way to Canberra. They were stoked and so they should have been.
The question we all need to ask is "where the fork is all the money?" They have collected much more in the interim years than we will ever know...and they have spent/wasted the lot!! We pay more now than ever by way of stealth taxes and still we struggle to pay off foreign debt. or fix anything. We can't keep the roads safe and schools and the like are now paid for by parents...more so than ever.
They need to be called to account.
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Unfortunately we have too many NON PRODUCERS employed by governments these days.
You only have to look at the layers of red tape involved in acheiving a result in anything.
We have too many academics creating jobs for other academics.
It costs nearly as much for a "feasability study" as it does to complete the project, and lets not forget the all important environmental study.
I remember a time when an engineer would design a bridge, an accountant would cost the project and a team of 100 would build it. These days the number of shiny bums involed in the process outnumbers the blokes that actually build it.
No wonder nothing gets done.
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People forget the States get the GST and the Fed's get the wages tax.....giving money to ex union labour government people is like feeding chickens to crocodiles....it's gone in one swoop never to be seen or accounted for ever again.....most of these people struggle to count there fingers and toes and yet they are put in charge of billions of dollars of taxpayers money. If these people where made accountable for there actions they would all be in jail. The whole system is corrupt and because of that the system always needs to be fed more money, so every year they slug us with raises and new ways of taxing us either directly or indirectly.
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Unfortunately we have too many NON PRODUCERS employed by governments these days.
You only have to look at the layers of red tape involved in acheiving a result in anything.
We have too many academics creating jobs for other academics.
It costs nearly as much for a "feasability study" as it does to complete the project, and lets not forget the all important environmental study.
I remember a time when an engineer would design a bridge, an accountant would cost the project and a team of 100 would build it. These days the number of shiny bums involed in the process outnumbers the blokes that actually build it.
No wonder nothing gets done.
That inefficiency is the price we pay for demanding efficiency and accountability...
Look at the post-GFC stimulus: it was specifically stated that the main purpose was to get cash out there, without getting bogged down in the details of trying to wrangle the best possible deal - six years later, we're still bitching about "the waste"...
Similarly, all of that "red tape" and "green tape" that we love to hate, was created for a reason. Maybe those reasons are outdated, or were crap in the first place - but simply dismissing it as "red (or green) tape" without considering those reasons is begging for the fork-up fairy to come and screw you somewhere very uncomfortable.
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Back on topic... I'm happy paying tax. In fact, I'd be happy to pay more.
I look around internationally, and there's a pretty solid correlation between tax paid and lifespan/crime rate/infant mortality/quality of life/etc.
And I'm not silly enough to think that those roads, schools, police service, hospitals, fire statation and all of the other things that are crucial to a functioning society, all just appeared magically without the input of our tax dollars... ;)
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Have you noticed that a lot of machine printed receipts fad really quickly?
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Back on topic... I'm happy paying tax. In fact, I'd be happy to pay more.
Can we assume you're being audited at the moment? :)
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Can we assume you're being audited at the moment? :)
lol - but No.
Despite what you might have heard, taxation = prosperity. Look at all of the poorest countries in the world, and they all adhere to the 'small government, low taxation' model.
At the other end, look at Norway or Sweden for how it could work if we could get over the idiocy of hating taxation without considering what it gives us.
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Despite what you might have heard, taxation = prosperity. Look at all of the poorest countries in the world, and they all adhere to the 'small government, low taxation' model.
At the other end, look at Norway or Sweden for how it could work if we could get over the idiocy of hating taxation without considering what it gives us.
I personally didn't mind paying tax/GST/rates and so on until I looked at what the powers to be have been spending it on.
Now I'm not so sure.
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Most people here hate tax because there tooo much of it and once you pay it it is wasted on crap like changing the style of the flower on the state emblem as a marketing exercise because some wanker told them they have to move with the times, the cost, a lousy $15 mill.
The bastards with their sin tax on beer have essentially taxed most of the old blokes social lives out of existence.
By the time you get thru your weekly spend I am guessing you have paid half of what you have earned in taxes.
If it makes you happy Nathan please feel free to pay my share, I am sure I'll get over it. ;)
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Try and find the news story on Kerry Packer when investigated by the ATO.
quotes I recall:
" I will pay every cent I am liable for and not one cent extra "
" if I choose to legally minimise my tax liability I do so because you incompetents ( ATO ) have no fu... cking idea how to manage it "
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Nathan ... I think you have pretty well nailed it as far were the money goes .
" And I'm not silly enough to think that those roads, schools, police service, hospitals, fire statation and all of the other things that are crucial to a functioning society, all just appeared magically without the input of our tax dollars"
But sometimes you have to wounder why they are there ...... for the Countries benefit or theirs.
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Ted .....
Kerry Francis Bullmore Packer. Reluctantly. When asked to state his full name and the capacity in which he appeared.
I am not evading tax in any way, shape or form. Now of course I am minimizing my tax and if anybody in this country doesn't minimize their tax they want their heads read because as a government I can tell you you're not spending it that well that we should be donating extra. Transcribed from the in-memoriam 2006 television show The Big Fella: The Extraodinary Life of Kerry Packer
I've already given you the answer on this subject, I have told you that I pay whatever tax I am required to pay under the law, not a penny more, not a penny less, and the suggestion that I am trying to evade tax, which is what you're putting forward, I find highly offensive and I don't intend to cooperate with you in the blackening of my character. Transcribed from the in-memoriam 2006 television show The Big Fella: The Extraodinary Life of Kerry
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Ok, you quoted it , I recalled it. Same scenario. ;D
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Most people here hate tax because there tooo much of it and once you pay it it is wasted on crap like changing the style of the flower on the state emblem as a marketing exercise because some wanker told them they have to move with the times, the cost, a lousy $15 mill.
The bastards with their sin tax on beer have essentially taxed most of the old blokes social lives out of existence.
By the time you get thru your weekly spend I am guessing you have paid half of what you have earned in taxes.
If it makes you happy Nathan please feel free to pay my share, I am sure I'll get over it. ;)
No matter what, there will be someone complaining that it is "wasted".
A government basically a parent with 23 million teenagers - everyone has their hand out, everyone thinks their 'need' is greater than everyone elses'.
Until the people of Australia get our shit together and start having a sensible discussion about what our country's priorities are, how much they'll cost, whether we are prepared to pay for it, and how we'll pay for it, then we're dooming ourselves to continued stupidity.
Governments of both sides have failed us badly, because us voters demand cheap, instant gratification.
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You are right there Wasp. Grew a patch in the old mans shed some 40 years ago. It effectively saved taxable income, it was fun, got all my mates involved and as far as healthy.......well we are all still alive 8)
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Been doing some Adventure riding lately and follow little tracks on my GPS using the latest Topo maps.
Have been finding a few what used to be State Forestry's but are now National Parks.
[ Still named Forestry's on the map but National Parks on the signs.]
Can't help but notice that they have no access roads. [ Roads are now private with no access !]
Yes I have been naughty but nobody has noticed yet.
Did I pay for these and am I paying for the upkeep through my taxes ?
If so then why can't I get to have a look at them?
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National Parks are woefully underfunded. Turning bushland into National Parks has been an easy way to get the green voters onside - Bob Carr was a huge fan of this tactic - but of course, governments being governments, they only do enough to win the votes, and don't fund the maintenance.
The Jerawangla forest on the NSW south coast is a good one - they made the bits near the road a NP, so there are signs saying "National Park" all along the highway, but a couple of km into the bush its all still Forestry land... Better still, the roads all still belong to Forestry, so the road maintenance costs come out of Forestry's budget.
When Forestry land is turned into a NP, they don't need the access to get logging trucks in, so it does actually make sense to cut down the number of roads within a NP - especially when they don't have the budget to maintain those roads...
Of course, it then creates dramas when there's a fire, but we hardly get any of those, right?!... ::) ... >:(x100.
Sorry for the rant. It's something I find incredibly furstrating.
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Seriously Nathan, are you a politician or a politician wanna be? Man, you choose to ignore so many crucial elements of how our governments bend us over as often and as regularly as they do.
For starters, the taxes paid by those that were here before us (lets just go back to our grandparents) paid for a majority of our now infrastructure. Electricity, roads, gas, sewerage etc. Now, we, the tax payer, have to continue paying to maintain these essentials even though the prior money collected by government to keep OUR (before the arseholes sold everything to privatisation) assets in good repair was pretty much pissed down the drain and or went to government lurks and perks. It still does. And once they realised the money they collected from taxes wasn't enough to maintain the infrastructure AND keep their lavish pay rates intact, taxes went up. And keep going up.
Abbott and co want most Aussie workers to forgo their entitlements and penalty rates while they (politicians) still get 15% pay increases ABOVE GDP every year and receive the most generous pensions in the economic world. And lets not forget how little time they actually spend at work.....I haven't done an in depth analysis on how much each and every politician costs this nation, but I reckon that 15% every year, divide by the lot of them, would alone go a long way to fixing our dilapidated infrastructure. Successive governments have let prior great infrastructure fall into disrepair. Our railways are a joke. Electricity, a joke. Roads, we all know how bad they are. Now they are letting most our major manufactures go by the wayside. Answer, lets buy BMW"s for the government fleet but ask every body else to work smarter and reduce costs! And lets not forget how many millions get spent every other election on re-modelling parliament and government house while the homeless and disabled struggle to find somewhere to eat, let alone sleep.
There are coal and gas mines in most NSW national parks, this is why they don't maintain access tracks. More access means more scrutiny.... I know, I've ridden into most of them and been chased out of ALL of them on my dirt squirts. And to think I was responsible for ruining the environment >:( Dirt bike riders are the heathen of society when they ride around or over gates and HUGE earth or concrete mounds in the middle of the scrub! Don't worry about the bulldozers and trucks it took to construct the obstacles in the first place >:(
I'd love to know how locked gates help when attempting to fight fires. Some of the gates I've come across on bush tracks in the middle of National Parks must of cost 10's of thousands to put up. And at the end of the day, they are only there to stop people from entering mine land. Firefighters are not allowed to go past them unless someone from the mine comes to unlock them. Even if it means they have to turn around (if they can) and drive back through the hell hole they just came through.
How the fluck does it make sense to cut down the number of roads through any natural landscape? There will never an abundance of roads running everywhere. But having the ability to chose different paths to either fight or run from fire or flood is the right of everybody.
Seriously my friend, you need to stop reading and believing what you read in news papers and stop believing what comes out of politicians mouths.....the proof is in the pudding and our pudding is well and truly overdone.
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I'm not making excuses for the crap, just explaining how these things end up - even the dumbest shit happens for a reason that seems valid at the time.
Even when we bang out heads against the wall at the sheer idiocy of decisions/situations, they are usually the best compromise available at the time... Usually they're an awkward balancing act.
And fixing them is VERY rarely as simple as a three word slogan.
Two sayings, both equally valid:
"Every complex problem has a solution that is neat, simple and wrong".
"Compromise is that art of ensuring that nobody gets what they want".
The world is a complex, difficult place. If we think it can be fixed with Three Word Slogans, we will continue to be f$&ked over by our elected representatives.
The only way to make it better is for us punters to make a real effort to understand why things have happened, and to understand that we won't always get our own way.
That's never going to happen: we all flock to the politicians who promise the world, without any consideration to their ability to deliver.
We got duped in 2007, but despite many more, more obvious warning signs, we repeated the mistake in 2013... It seems that we don't really want a competent leader: we are only interested in being told that mummy will make it all better for poor little voter-diddums.
There's no point in blaming the politicians we voted for: the solution lies with us. We need to educate ourselves about topics (and I mean actually educate ourselves, NOT just depending on the maknstream media) and stop expecting every decision to suit our personal whims.
Until then, we will continue to get the "leaders" we deserve.
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That's never going to happen: we all flock to the politicians who promise the world, without any consideration to their ability to deliver.
We got duped in 2007, but despite many more, more obvious warning signs, we repeated the mistake in 2013... It seems that we don't really want a competent leader: we are only interested in being told that mummy will make it all better for poor little voter-diddums.
There's no point in blaming the politicians we voted for: the solution lies with us. We need to educate ourselves about topics (and I mean actually educate ourselves, NOT just depending on the maknstream media) and stop expecting every decision to suit our personal whims.
Until then, we will continue to get the "leaders" we deserve.
I hear you load and clear there Nathan...Unfortunately, the majority of households believe what they read ,hear and watch as being gospel.