OzVMX Forum
Marketplace => eBay Finds => Topic started by: firko on March 10, 2013, 11:29:02 am
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20k fishing expedition. http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=oWU8EggstnARCTjw&w=4 (http://www.vintagemx.us/cgi-bin/largephoto.cgi?C=oWU8EggstnARCTjw&w=4)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15492038-241033-large_zps027f95bb.jpg)
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/15492038-241034-large_zpsa9414dae.jpg)
FOR SALE
Ad # 3212398 March 9, 2013
Pro-Tec Yamaha TT-600 as raced by Ron Lechien in 1982. One of two bikes produced by Pro-Tec for the Four Stroke Nationals. 598cc Pro-Tec stroker motor, Pro-Fab frame and swingarm, Sun rims, Ohlins, 43mm Yamaha forks, etc. The real thing with plenty of provenance. $20k.
Greg Bastek
Seymour, CT
Email
Registered Since 9/28/2004 | 775 Posts
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It's been for sale for awhile now. I think he has even come down on the price.
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It's worth it just for the ATK sticker on the swingarm.
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It started off at $25,000..
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What makes these so expencive ?
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I was wondering why it had the ATK sticker on it and just realised that it has the Anti Tracking Kettenrad fitted for the chain. That was one of Horst Lietner's early inventions to keep the chain tension even throughout the suspension travel. The abbreviation for it was ATK and that led to the name of his bikes.
Horst also pioneered mountain bikes and developed suspension for them amongs other things.
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That's an odd way to work out a bikes value Walter. Wouldn't all those prices you quoted just give you a replica? This appears to be genuine with history. Not saying that it will fetch $20K but if it was mine I wouldn't sell it for replica money.
Cheers, Grahame
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yes that would be like Walter selling one of his good engines for parts value
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and not accounting for any time putting it together researching the parts etc etc
You can spend hundreds of hours on a project and if you had to charge for your time as with a commerical venure you would never get your money back.
Fair play to those that are doing it though and long may they continue to do so.
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This time i must agree with Walter . ;D
As for the hrs spent and researching parts ect ,if this was the case my cr's would be worth a fortune .
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I disagree
The original Aberg
Or any of the others that he rode are worth substantially more than any copy replica
Talking of the Originals,
Where are they ??
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If you use the cost to replicate as value you pretty much deny the whole sportsmemorybilia, memorybilia or even collectables in general. A baseball proved to be used in a famous game can be worth thousands, but will only cost a couple of bucks to replicate....
If this bike is an original, raced by one of the biggest mx-stars of that era it will of course be worth more than any new replica I'd say...
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Fairenough if it is THE bike , but is it THE bike ?
Read the ad, it tells you whose bike it is.
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If you use the cost to replicate as value you pretty much deny the whole sportsmemorybilia, memorybilia or even collectables in general. A baseball proved to be used in a famous game can be worth thousands, but will only cost a couple of bucks to replicate....
If this bike is an original, raced by one of the biggest mx-stars of that era it will of course be worth more than any new replica I'd say...
Exactly! I couldn't agree more, trouble is most people on here know nothing of motocross history or legends from the past.. To them it's just a trail bike with a different frame that anyone could build!
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If the Dogger raced it that would only slightly up the value. The Steve McQueen bike with the ownership papers was worth a lot of money as opposed to a Husky he may have raced.
Everything of value is speculative (could go up or could go down). You may love your wife with all your heart and soul, but if she cheats on you her value will go down. If it were determined tomorrow that gold caused cancer it's value would plummet. It's not the sum of the parts, but the emotions attached to it (the emotion could also be greed). He's looking for that Whale to buy it as an investment. If he really needed to sell it the price would be going down faster.
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Found this:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/814073-lets-see-some-hl500-aberg-replica-or-any-cool-tt500/page__st__680
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I agree Johnny to me its just a trail bike and a over rated one at that .Did it ever win anything ?
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GDR have another read of Johhny O post you may be confused.
Various versions of these bikes were raced by Aberg in World championship's with great success, also considering the weight disadvantage up againgst lightweight factory Japanese bikes.
I have a friend who has a genuine Pro-Fab HL and the bike steers and tracks superbly.
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GDR have another read of Johhny O post you may be confused.
Various versions of these bikes were raced by Aberg in World championship's with great success, also considering the weight disadvantage up againgst lightweight factory Japanese bikes.
I have a friend who has a genuine Pro-Fab HL and the bike steers and tracks superbly.
I have a genuine real Torsten Hallman Aberg and I have had it since I was young enough and fast enough to ride it, (over 30 years ago)
It tracks superbly but it doesn't steer
I have a C&J XR500 it steers and tracks and is so much better to ride than the TT
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The HL was a little dated when the C&J 500 Hondas hit the market.. Things changed fast in the late 70's early 80's.
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My C&J 500 is the 79 built Alan West bike on the Revs cover
My Aberg was built in 78/79 I have owned it since 1980
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Graeme the Aberg you have would be a very early build as I remember it racing in mid 78. The original owner told me that it took ages to get it from the UK so I would suspect it was an early one. When did the first original HL frame kits become available?
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FDR I must be one of these people that know nothing of the history of MX thats why I am asking the question what have they won .
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Interesting that Johnson's and Lechein's bikes had a different swingarm....and forks to this one? I thought Johnson ran the #22 in '82 and Lechein ran #224 ?
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My C&J 500 is the 79 built Alan West bike on the Revs cover
My Aberg was built in 78/79 I have owned it since 1980
The first HL500 was built in '77 a couple of years before the C&J.. As i said earlier technology changed rapidly in the late 70's and the HL frame design was soon outdated.
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Greg Ian's bike is a US Hallman not UK / NL HL
Johnny O I certainly remember Vertually every change on everything MX from H S and Y from 76 to 85
it's not the technology changes that made the Honda better it, the Aberg has no steering lock and it was/is too tall, the C&J was based on the 78/79 CR250R which had steering lock and did turn.
I raced the Aberg at Jilliby, Dunlop Lea and Foster Park, it only worked for me at Jilliby with its berms, Dunlop Lea was a killer with the deep sand and ruts, Foster Park was fun.
I rode both bikes as registered trail bikes but there is no comparison.
I have CCMs and other trick Thumpers but the C&J is the best so far,
I say so far since I honestly think the HS that GMC has built will be even better,
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I'm glad you gave me a bit of a comparison between them.. I want a 4stroke Evo bike and i'm tossing up between a few. Where does a '79 CCM fit in? and the other i'm thinking about is another '84 510 Husky(had one a few years back)
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the C&J was based on the 78/79 CR250R which had steering lock and did turn.
Funny thing is, the 78/79 CR250R is also based on the Husky frame
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the C&J was based on the 78/79 CR250R which had steering lock and did turn.
Funny thing is, the 78/79 CR250R is also based on the Husky frame
Too true.. for some reason the HL rear shock position ended up more upright though and Honda pulled the rake in a bit more
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Greg Ian's bike is a US Hallman not UK / NL HL
Johnny O I certainly remember Vertually every change on everything MX from H S and Y from 76 to 85
it's not the technology changes that made the Honda better it, the Aberg has no steering lock and it was/is too tall, the C&J was based on the 78/79 CR250R which had steering lock and did turn.
I raced the Aberg at Jilliby, Dunlop Lea and Foster Park, it only worked for me at Jilliby with its berms, Dunlop Lea was a killer with the deep sand and ruts, Foster Park was fun.
I rode both bikes as registered trail bikes but there is no comparison.
I have CCMs and other trick Thumpers but the C&J is the best so far,
I say so far since I honestly think the HS that GMC has built will be even better,
So did Ian get his through the UK as that was the impression he gave me when we were talking at Bulahdelah last year. The Hallman bikes were later right?
That is the problem your memory on exact timing fades over the years. The reason I thought it was '78 was I thought I raced him on my VB360 but the VE414 came out in mid '78 and I rode that during late '78 and most part of '79.
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I agree Johnny to me its just a trail bike and a over rated one at that .Did it ever win anything ?
A few good MXGP finishes and US 4 stroke nationals, it could be argued that it was hugely successful in MXGP given it was up against open class 2 strokes. Along with the 70s Cheney's and CCMs, the HL was a last gasp attempt at building a competitive 4 stroke in a race environment dominated by 2 strokes.
The ProTec bikes were special in so far as they were highly developed and had top US riders on them to compete in the 4 stroke nationals so have a place in MX history. The 4 stroke only US events as with the 4 stroke nationals in Aussie were very high profile and had some really top US and Aussie riders for that matter competing on HLs, C&Js and the like.
I agree with Son and Tahitian Red in so far as the C&J was probably a better bike, could have something to do with how the XR motor carries its weight lower, is more compact and like you say 2 years was a long time in the 70s.
The ATK connection with this bike also makes it much cooler. The sister ProTec bike to this one that I beleive Rick Johnson rode, was once on the market at 50K. Saying that it is worth replacement value plus change must be just a comment to wind things up, its like saying there is no value in a bike with race history which is completely not the case.
I see HL reps being one of those things you own, a bit like Cobra reps, because you can and they have a certain iconic status. Also they make pretty practical VMX bikes given the engine is more or less still in production so you can buy as many engine spares as you need.
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marc.com thanks for the answer .
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I'm glad you gave me a bit of a comparison between them.. I want a 4stroke Evo bike and i'm tossing up between a few. Where does a '79 CCM fit in? and the other i'm thinking about is another '84 510 Husky(had one a few years back)
John there's that KTM Rotax I listed in the ebay section that's still for sale.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KTM-500GS-1982-VMX-VINDURO-/160986746230?_trksid=p2047675.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D6199008719016607455%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D160978695899%26#ht_1023wt_1178
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I'm glad you gave me a bit of a comparison between them.. I want a 4stroke Evo bike and i'm tossing up between a few. Where does a '79 CCM fit in? and the other i'm thinking about is another '84 510 Husky(had one a few years back)
With the CCM you are looking at another 20K bike, plus you are buying pretty ancient engine design that was well past its used by date. 84 510 Husky would be cool, though you will buy a CR500 for about a 1/3 of the money.
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I'm glad you gave me a bit of a comparison between them.. I want a 4stroke Evo bike and i'm tossing up between a few. Where does a '79 CCM fit in? and the other i'm thinking about is another '84 510 Husky(had one a few years back)
With the CCM you are looking at another 20K bike, plus you are buying pretty ancient engine design that was well past its used by date. 84 510 Husky would be cool, though you will buy a CR500 for about a 1/3 of the money.
There have been a few CCM's go for between 10k-14k in England in the past 12 months and 1 or 2 even cheaper in the US but it is a lot of coin. A C&J Honda would probably cost around 10k also I guess.
Not interested in a CR500 I've got a shed full of 2 strokes
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John, did you see my post for the Rotax KTM? Forget all that big dollar stuff and be really elite for a quarter of the cost. As far as 4 strokes go, can't beat that Rotax.
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Yes Bernie only problem is it's a single shock and i want a twin shock for the Evo class.. :)
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Dont know if its only me , but if you asked me what fourstroke comes to mind first ,if we where talking Classic MX , then the CCM is the one .
I am not really old enough to remember much about CCM and they wearn't really about in NZ, though I have ridden one and seen them out there going pretty fast.
When I think 4 strokes I think Jacky Martens, pre 90 510 Husky would go down nice, the water cooled 510 engine was a much better motor.
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Yes Bernie only problem is it's a single shock and i want a twin shock for the Evo class.. :)
Ahh okay. Too easy, Can Am Sonic. ;D
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My memory of CCM's is when there going they are awesome but more often than not I use to watch them being pushed up down the pits trying to start them. That said I would still have one in my shed.
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Yes Bernie only problem is it's a single shock and i want a twin shock for the Evo class.. :)
Maybe you should have bought this and stuck a XL/XR or whatever engine in it. I thought about it but missed the auction ending ::)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151006428163?nma=true&si=JfNslo2%2BOXIXkxeMqckr5xIiMCs%3D&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&orig_cvip=true#ht_500wt_1288 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151006428163?nma=true&si=JfNslo2%2BOXIXkxeMqckr5xIiMCs%3D&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&orig_cvip=true#ht_500wt_1288)
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John, did you see my post for the Rotax KTM? Forget all that big dollar stuff and be really elite for a quarter of the cost. As far as 4 strokes go, can't beat that Rotax.
I was thinking of buying your KTM
If it doesn't sell this time pm me
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Why is an Aberg/NVT/Pro Fab or replica Yamaha considered a hotted up trail bike but a CCM revered as something exotic? The CCM had very humble beginnings.
Neither engine has the race engineering or pedigree of a 510 Husky. That doesn't mean they can't be developed well and put in a nice chassis as has been done.
Cheers, Grahame
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John, did you see my post for the Rotax KTM? Forget all that big dollar stuff and be really elite for a quarter of the cost. As far as 4 strokes go, can't beat that Rotax.
I was thinking of buying your KTM
If it doesn't sell this time pm me
Sorry for the confusion Son, it's not my KTM, I was just referring to my post where I had posted the listing for it.
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Why is an Aberg/NVT/Pro Fab or replica Yamaha considered a hotted up trail bike but a CCM revered as something exotic?
HL500 in one form or another won or placed in races in both the World MX champs and US 4 stroke Nationals , amoungst others, so calling it a hotted up trail bike is understating things a bit.
However going down the trail bike path, CCM and HL500 probably share more similarities than differences, both had origins in trail/roadie softer sorts of bikes, but someone saw potential to hot them up and change the frame and have a go at winning a world championship.
The CCM engine had a lot more development time, like a decade at MXGP level than the HL, Clews certainly replaced a lot more parts on the B44/50 than Aberg did on the HL, so it could be regarded as tricker I guess.
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Why is an Aberg/NVT/Pro Fab or replica Yamaha considered a hotted up trail bike but a CCM revered as something exotic? The CCM had very humble beginnings.
Neither engine has the race engineering or pedigree of a 510 Husky. That doesn't mean they can't be developed well and put in a nice chassis as has been done.
Cheers, Grahame
I agree, the amount of venom thrown at HL's staggers me but you never hear any criticism of the CCM even though both bikes are extremely similar in concept. Both took a basic bread and butter four stroke single and fitted to a craftsman built frame, using the best available suspension and cycleparts. I'm not a big fan of either bike but love what they represented at the time...a big "Up Yours" to the established two stroke domination of motocross. I didn't get it until I saw CCM team mates John Banks and Vic Eastwood hold first and second place in both motos of the 1976 USGP at Carlsbad until the 100 deegree + heat got the better of both riders at about half distance in both motos and they faded back into the pack. The crowd were electric, screaming enthusiasm at the two almost unknown riders on "old 4 strokes" whooping Wolsink, DeCoster and the other supposed hot shots. That day they proved to me that a well setup 4 stroke with a quality rider aboard was more than capable of sticking it to the two strokes. The following year Bengt Aberg proved the point by winning the Luxembeourg GP on an HL Yamaha. Many anti HL pundits have forever called that win a fluke but despite there being no further wins that season Aberg got four more podiums and points in every round, finishing in 9th place for the season...not bad for a privateer. The only reason that the HL project didn't continue is that the small Swedish Hallman-Enquist Yamaha teams funding was withdrawn by the factory because they wanted concentrate on the two stroke race program. They'd achieved their goal of selling a squillion XT/TT Yamahas based on the HL's success and as far as they were concerned that was it.
If both CCM and Yamaha's HL program had got the funding the bigger teams received they could have attracted more competitive riders and done much more development I'm positive they would have been as serious a contender on the circuit as any of the bigger two stroke teams. To call the HL's farm bikes is an insult to the effort that went into achieving so much with so little in such a short period in time.
Below: Bengt Aberg on his way to the chequered flag in the '77 Luxembeourg GP.
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k495/firko2/aberg771large1_zps22e70158.jpg)
extract from Torsten Hallmans book: Mr Motocross.
In 1975, I had been the Yamaha distributor for Sweden for a couple of years and I heard of a new four stroke Yamaha that was for the US market, the XT500. Sten Lundin the former 1959 and 1961 500 World Champion was our service manager at the time and he was also very keen on this bike. We tried to get Yamaha Japan to send us some bikes but they refused - these bikes were supposed to be sold in the US only! But our chance to get our hands on such a bike came at the 1975 Six Day Trials in England. Lars Larson, riding the Six Day Trials, knew about our interest and phoned me, telling me that there was an American rider entered in the event with a XT500. I told Lars - go ahead and buy the bike after the event! The rider agreed and the bike was purchased and shipped to Sweden immediately. Sten, being a big four stroke fan, was eager to examine it and decided that the stock chassis was lacking and decided to fit the motor in a Husqvarna chassis. A new project was now under way.
Sten completely stripped the bike down and altered a Husky frame to accommodate the Yamaha motor as well as making several changes to the engine to make it lighter and stronger. When it was all done, a new bike was born, the Hallman & Eneqvist HL 500! We then decided to send the frame to Pro-fab in the US and have the frame copied. Pro-fab built a total of three frames for this bike. (Pro-fab later produced several Aberg-replica-frames for Hallman Racing Inc. sold on the open market.) The project took up almost all of 1976. As all this was going on, I had an idea to enter the bike in the 1977 500 GP's. Former 1969 and 1970 500 World Champion Bengt Aberg was contacted - he was also a big fan of 4-strokes bikes - and after testing the bike he loved it and agreed. Now we needed about 200.000:- SEK extra in funding from the Yamaha factory to do the entire grand-prix season. We, as the Yamaha-importer should put in the same amount ourselves in the project. I decided to contact the marketing people at Yamaha and arrange a meeting. At the meeting, I presented them a proposal and I promised them that the bike should create so much publicity that the bike would be on the cover of at least half of all the dirt bike magazines in the world along with numerous technical articles. I also promised that Bengt should be able to score some GP-points on the bike and to be within the first 10 in a couple of Grand Prix´s. They declined, they could not understand how a bike designed for the California off-road market could be a serious contender in the motocross GP´s! But I did not give up so easy! I decided to go to Amsterdam, the next step on the ladder, to the sales department there and present them the same proposal. They also declined and gave the same reasons. My last chance was to go to the top-guy, Mr. Kuratomo, the same guy that hired me in the beginning. I showed Mr. Kuratomo the same proposal, photos of the bike and made the same promises about being on the cover of all the magazines etc. I told him that the marketing and sales people wasn't interested and declined and Yamaha shouldn't miss such an opportunity in PR for the single cylinder XT500 just being introduced on the European market. His response, only after listening for 5 minutes was "Who said no to this great idea - you can do this for 200.000:- SEK? No problem, Mr. Kuratomo ordered funding for the project!
Now that we were going to race the GP's, we decided to modify the motor. We even commissioned Hedlund to build a three valve head. The bike was very successful in its debut and Bengt scored the first points in a 500 GP since the 1960's with a four stroke engine. In the Luxembourg Grand Prix -77 he managed to win the first race as well as he got third in the second. Bengt and the HL 500 were actually a serious contender during the season and managed to get third place finishes in 4 more races during the season and finished in 9th position total in the World Championship! The bike was such a success, both scoring Grand Prix points but also a fantastic PR-project. Every motorcycle magazines had front pages and countless of articles and pictures of the incredible Yamaha 500cc single cylinder bike! The sales of XT500 rocketed and Yamaha was happy! Later in was decided that Yamaha should build about 200 replicas of the HL500. (We in Sweden were not involved in this project.) These bikes had a chassis that was made in England and they were really not exact replicas. Actually they were not very good bikes at all.
After all the success we had with the initial project, we now decided that the motor should be redesigned from the ground up. Sten had ideas on how to make a very light weight four stroke engine. I went back to Yamaha about this, but this time they declined saying it was just too big of a project. It is interesting to see over twenty years later, Yamaha picking up where we left off in 1977.
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Thanks for the usual illuminating response Firko, it alway surprises me the amount of energy that goes into any HL discussion, I see it as being a bit like talking Harleys with unbelievers, the most strident critics tend not to have owned or ridden one.
Back to the Pro Tec TT600 that started this thread, the value of the engine has been over looked a bit, the original ProTec bikes were bored stroked, Jerry Branch ported, there are claims of close to 60 horses.
Which makes me ponder my dream HL500, probably OW forks and wheels, GMC frame, Bengt Abergs 3 valve engine
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That is a very interesting read Firko, Hallman states that Profab built the first frames yet most people think they came later after NVT, also he doesn't rate the NVT frames as being as good as Profab's.
People that call HL's farm bikes are just showing their ignorance and total lack of knowledge of motocross history.
The bike was obviously good to win a GP and finish in the top 10 in its first season plus the fact that Aberg was 33 years old and at the end of his GP career when racing the HL makes the results even more significant.
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http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-augusta-region/motorcycles/hl500/1015865958 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-augusta-region/motorcycles/hl500/1015865958)
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http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-augusta-region/motorcycles/hl500/1015865958
that bike's as much a proper HL Yamaha as I am George Clooney. It's a Suzuki swing arm, is it a Husky frame? I can't quite pick it.
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I think that's the std Yamaha frame George...i mean Firko. It's got the oil filler in front of the tank and the curved cross member just below the tank.
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http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-augusta-region/motorcycles/hl500/1015865958
that bike's as much a proper HL Yamaha as I am George Clooney. It's a Suzuki swing arm, is it a Husky frame? I can't quite pick it.
Its a XT,TT500 frame and you are right firko a suzuki swing arm. he needs to change his add to TT500 wants to be a HL500 ;D
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http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-augusta-region/motorcycles/hl500/1015865958
that bike's as much a proper HL Yamaha as I am George Clooney. It's a Suzuki swing arm, is it a Husky frame? I can't quite pick it.
I have a HL500 TRIBUTE bike. Not a replica and certainly nothing like an original. In fact, to his credit, the previous owner advertised it as a tribute bike and not a replica and I've stuck with that description. It's a TT500 framed, SR500 powered, PE400 rear ended and YZ front ended and tanked frankenbike and I absolutely love it.
It is without doubt the most fun bike I've ridden for a looooong time .. I would recommend it to anyone ;)
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Hmm lots of Sharks out there I guess.
I wouldn't have known if it was the real deal or not. :-\
Unless I was buying it, and checked the numbers.
Have to agree, it would be a hoot to ride, - but not for 9 grand, being a TT/XT.
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All very good points Firko, and it raises an interesting issue. When you consider that 2-strokes came to dominate MX largely because the development from the Japanese went into them rather than 4-strokes, it makes you wonder whether the 4T isn't inherently superior for racing purposes. The Jap focus on 2-strokes may have been from a marketing viewpoint - that is, exploiting a competitive advantage. Both the CCM and the HL were very successful for the level of support, and even the KSI was a decent racebike. Then consider such machines as the Husky 510.
Had the Japanese begun seriously developing 4-strokes in the 80s, would the 2-stroke have remained dominant? Perhaps the HL is better viewed as a very serious opportunity that the marketplace missed?
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I think that's the std Yamaha frame George...i mean Firko. It's got the oil filler in front of the tank and the curved cross member just below the tank.
Yeah I worked it out pretty quickly but for some reason couldn't get back on to the forum to fix my post for some bloody reason and then I had to go out........Jesus I hate these listing bullshitters, the seller knows quite well that it's not a proper HL but still describes it as such. It's a lot like that world championship winning Wheelsmith Maico over in the Maico section. I do look a little like George Clooney though, don't you think ??? 8) 8)?
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I think that's the std Yamaha frame George...i mean Firko. It's got the oil filler in front of the tank and the curved cross member just below the tank.
Yeah I worked it out pretty quickly but for some reason couldn't get back on to the forum to fix my post for some bloody reason and then I had to go out........Jesus I hate these listing bullshitters, the seller knows quite well that it's not a proper HL but still describes it as such. It's a lot like that world championship winning Wheelsmith Maico over in the Maico section. I do look a little like George Clooney though, don't you think ??? 8) 8)?
Haha you look more like George Clooney than a HL Yamaha.. Yeah those lying sellers piss me off too
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Had the Japanese begun seriously developing 4-strokes in the 80s, would the 2-stroke have remained dominant? Perhaps the HL is better viewed as a very serious opportunity that the marketplace missed?
The HL prticulalrly the NVT ones had a kind of funny status with Yamaha, where they even had the Yamaha brochures printed up and clearly were supplying engines. There are various stories like the 3 valve head got too close for comfort to Yamahas own patented multi valve set ups, that they were testing the water for a more serious TT500. I would say they felt they didn't want to compete with their own YZ, IT and existing TT500 which already sold well.
We could have all been blowing up high performance 4 strokes a decade earlier, which may be another reason, in 2 strokes they had a reliable high performance engine and may have considered a high performance 4 stroke as having too much potential to go bang.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/1979-HL500-01_zps0b20db55.jpg)
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You have to wonder if they are lying and silly enough to think people will believe it. Or, if they actually believe it themselves. Keep in mind that most on this forum live and breath old bikes and have a lot of knowledge. Hence why we are here, to share and learn. But there are a lot of punters that are into bikes and don't read and haven't a clue about what they own, they just bought it because they liked it. They might gloss over a few facts here and there and then make assumptions. Believe it or not there are people who may be into a particular brand of bike, have a small collection of them and couldn't even tell you what year the models were.
Some people just ride them, or collect them and that's as far as it goes.
As for HL's has anyone ever built an enduro version?
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You have to wonder if they are lying and silly enough to think people will believe it. Or, if they actually believe it themselves. Keep in mind that most on this forum live and breath old bikes and have a lot of knowledge. Hence why we are here, to share and learn. But there are a lot of punters that are into bikes and don't read and haven't a clue about what they own, they just bought it because they liked it. They might gloss over a few facts here and there and then make assumptions. Believe it or not there are people who may be into a particular brand of bike, have a small collection of them and couldn't even tell you what year the models were.
Some people just ride them, or collect them and that's as far as it goes.
As for HL's has anyone ever built an enduro version?
Thats very true :) we anoracks on here are quick to accuse somone of deliberatley trying to pull a fast one when what their selling is not what they have advertised . At the end of the day if you know its not what he says it is DONT buy it ;)
There is certinaly an element who deliberatly bullshit and try to mislead especialy on ebay as Johnny O said , but some might actually not know what they have or dont have :)
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OK, I'll admit that the seller may think that what he's got is a real HL Yamaha but what bothers me is that someone equally as naive will come along and plop down his 9k thinking he's bought a classic piece of motocross history. It never used to bother me but this recent influx of HL Yamahas, Mugen Hondas, DG Suzuki's and Wheelsmith Maicos, all claiming to be the real deal isn't doing our sports credibility any favours. Nobody loves a trick bike more than moi and I love it when someone goes to the trouble to replicate his dream bike but I do wish they'd advertise them as tribute or replica and not alude that they're the real thing. As an example for CD10 I'm converting my DT1 Enduro over to DT1MX specification using only genuine GYT parts but I'd never sell it as a DT1MX because no matter how many genuine GYT or MX parts I use, it's still onlly a DT1 Enduro fitted with a GYT kit. It'll never be a genuine DT1MX.
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For all intent and purposes that bloke might think that making it look like one makes it one. You always get the odd bloke that reckons if he cuts the rear loop of the frame it's as good as. I could be wrong, he might be dodgey, someone should call him and ask.
And before I plonked down $9,000 on anything I would post it here so all the anoraks could dissect it down to the last non origional spoke nipple.
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I call mine replica of the replica ;D
http://keskustelu.classicmx.fi/index.php?topic=102.0
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I call mine replica of the replica ;D
http://keskustelu.classicmx.fi/index.php?topic=102.0
Would be great if i could read Swahili..
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Swahili ???....it's Finnish ;D Google translate or Apple translate is worth the effort ..... sometimes. The interweb is a marvelous thing ;D ;D
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It's like a paralell dimension OZVMX forum.
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Swahili ???....it's Finnish ;D Google translate or Apple translate is worth the effort ..... sometimes. The interweb is a marvelous thing ;D ;D
Finnish i cant even get started , cant understand a word :o
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You know, its much easyer to read than your language, just pronounce it as you read. Cant help much for understanding part ;D
Hölökynkölökyn!
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Kaikki tämä on minulle kapulakieltä
But seriously, it's great that Oppet, Ola Martin and the other Euro's come on here. They're all way more articulate in English than some of our Aussie posters and their contributions have been informative and entertaining. It's pretty embarrassing that most of us have no foreign language skills whatsoever yet these guys can post well formulated posts with nary a mistake. Out of respect for their effort coming on here and communicating with us in a foreign language we should make the translation effort to see what those wacky Finns/ Swedes and Norwegians are up to. I did and it's interesting.
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Yes and they have the history of motocross behind them.
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It's a 12 to 14 K bike top and that reaching IMHO !
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Nobody loves a trick bike more than moi and I love it when someone goes to the trouble to replicate his dream bike but I do wish they'd advertise them as tribute or replica and not alude that they're the real thing.
But back to the Pro Tec Yamaha, in this case it is the real thing, the Pro Tec is just as much an HL500 as the NVT bikes or whatever you like, actually given that the Aberg bikes that were raced were Pro Tec frames then you could say that they are the real HL500s, the Hallman bikes ditto as they were Pro Tec, the NVT bikes not as they came off a different jig, but however they were advertised as HL500s by Yamaha.
So I would say the advertiser is totally accurate, it is Pro Tec Aberg rep and a very special one as it has racing provenance and highly developed engine. Regarding the price, his bike he can ask what he wants. As I mentioned given that the other Pro Tec HL had a 50K price tag it is not out of the park, RH250s are up there as are CCM, this bike has a better pedigree than some of the CCMs that come up.
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Marc I wasn't being critical of the Pro-tec I was having a backdoor slag at the poor bugger advertising a modified stocker as a real deal HL and the myriad of Wheelsmith Maicos, Motocross Fox Hondas and Suzukis and Mugen Hondas that seem to be breeding in suburbia. I actually think that Pro-Tec is the best HL I've seen in ages.
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I actuallt thing that Pro-Tec is the best HL I've seen in ages.
Yeah I can understand Firko, there are a lot of Fox CRs, Mugens etc out there. Guess people want to jazz up the description a bit, don't totally blame them, its getting harder to sell stuff, so laying it on a bit thick might drag someone in.
But it is always a bit grey with the specials, like if you have forks, swinger and shocks is that a Fox CR ?, Fox RMs even murkier still, is it Simons forks, FMF swinger and Fox Shox. Where you have no real 'production bike' then you probably have to give the benefit of the doubt to some specials. Though I admit TT500 frame with YZ tank does not an HL make.
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I actuallt thing that Pro-Tec is the best HL I've seen in ages
I just re-read the post, it's one of the first I've done using my phone and you can tell my thumbs aren't up to it yet.....either that or I'm channeling Dave ;)
Marc, you and I are the forum poster boys for building wacky specials but neither of us have the gall to call our creations something they're not. "Though I admit TT500 frame with YZ tank does not an HL make. " nor does a set of cutaway fins and a blue sticker maketh a Wheelsmith Maico. I'm not convinced in the slightest that these sellers do it out of ignorance either. The biggest culprits seem to be commercial operations (Arizona Mike being the cult leader for this motley crew ;D).
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Yeah but I was taught by a car dealer years ago to write the top 10 features of your bike and list them in order of importance, if you get stuck at top 3 then invent the rest ;)
YZ250 74, semi working factory bike, custom paint, lightened and balanced, very rare model, ideal restorer, matching numbers, possibly ridden by Daryl Hannah. $45000 ono
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg71/marcFX_photo/2011-03-19_15-50-43_610.jpg)
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I was possibly ridden by Daryl Hannah once, at least she looked like DH (I was very drunk). How much has that increased my value?
;D
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Nobody loves a trick bike more than moi and I love it when someone goes to the trouble to replicate his dream bike but I do wish they'd advertise them as tribute or replica and not alude that they're the real thing.
But back to the Pro Tec Yamaha, in this case it is the real thing, the Pro Tec is just as much an HL500 as the NVT bikes or whatever you like, actually given that the Aberg bikes that were raced were Pro Tec frames then you could say that they are the real HL500s, the Hallman bikes ditto as they were Pro Tec, the NVT bikes not as they came off a different jig, but however they were advertised as HL500s by Yamaha.
So I would say the advertiser is totally accurate, it is Pro Tec Aberg rep and a very special one as it has racing provenance and highly developed engine. Regarding the price, his bike he can ask what he wants. As I mentioned given that the other Pro Tec HL had a 50K price tag it is not out of the park, RH250s are up there as are CCM, this bike has a better pedigree than some of the CCMs that come up.
Good Post
HLs are HLs,
Excellent Copies of the TORSTEN HALLMAN RACING "Bengt Aberg Replica".
I have had mine for over 30years I have never called it a HL because it's not,
Back then I payed twice the price of a brand new TT500 for it so in today's currency say $20,000
And that was a bike with no real history.
I rate the RN400 well above the RH250 because there was far fewer of them,
And CCM if they could have seen the forest not just the trees.. :)
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YZ250 74, semi working factory bike, custom paint, lightened and balanced, very rare model, ideal restorer, matching numbers, possibly ridden by Daryl Hannah. $45000 ono
LOL, or whatever they say, made my day! ;D ;D ;D
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looks like SA plates
http://s654.photobucket.com/user/bultacopursang/media/8EC5B6F7-E895-402B-8E31-EC75AF86CC5C.png.html?sort=3&o=0
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Was the first HL made from an early Husky frame?
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Darryl Hannah is Bobs sister. J
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Was the first HL made from an early Husky frame?
Yep ;),The prototype was a modified Husky frame with alloy swingarm & YZ forks & wheels :)
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The first ;)
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsa9571a51.jpg)
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps037a299a.jpg)
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd485/ola_martin/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps91704c7f.jpg)
Aaberg with the bike.
Engine # 1x1-
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No alloy swing, no yz fork.
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There ya go ;)what I have read is obviously wrong :),Is that a recent pic of the bike?, The most desired HL ever I'm thinking :)
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No alloy swing, no yz fork.
Who has it now??
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Pictures of the bike in its first season show the steel swingarm and Marzocchi forks then Husky forks..
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Photos from a couple of weeks ago.
The guy who owns it bought it from the Aaberg/Lundin/Enequist/Hallman crew in the late 70's.
He can document every bracket on the bike from different photos and magazine articles.
Except from the tip of the exhaust wich cracked off back when he raced it in the early 80's.