Pro-Tec HL Yamaha

[firko]

Why is an Aberg/NVT/Pro Fab or replica Yamaha considered a hotted up trail bike but a CCM revered as something exotic? The CCM had very humble beginnings.
Neither engine has the race engineering or pedigree of a 510 Husky. That doesn't mean they can't be developed well and put in a nice chassis as has been done.
Cheers, Grahame

I agree, the amount of venom thrown at HL's staggers me but you never hear any criticism of the CCM even though both bikes are extremely similar in concept. Both took a basic bread and butter four stroke single and fitted to a craftsman built frame, using the best available suspension and cycleparts. I'm not a big fan of either bike but love what they represented at the time...a big "Up Yours" to the established two stroke domination of motocross. I didn't get it until I saw CCM team mates John Banks and Vic Eastwood hold first and second place in both motos of the 1976 USGP at Carlsbad until the 100 deegree + heat got the better of both riders at about half distance in both motos and they faded back into the pack. The crowd were electric, screaming enthusiasm at the two almost unknown riders on "old 4 strokes" whooping Wolsink, DeCoster and the other supposed hot shots. That day they proved to me that a well setup 4 stroke with a quality rider aboard was more than capable of sticking it to the two strokes. The following year Bengt Aberg proved the point by winning the Luxembeourg GP on an HL Yamaha. Many anti HL pundits have forever called that win a fluke but despite there being no further wins that season Aberg got four more podiums and points in every round, finishing in 9th place for the season...not bad for a privateer. The only reason that the HL project didn't continue is that the small Swedish Hallman-Enquist Yamaha teams funding was withdrawn by the factory because they wanted concentrate on the two stroke race program. They'd achieved their goal of selling a squillion XT/TT Yamahas based on the HL's success and as far as they were concerned that was it.

If both CCM and Yamaha's HL program had got the funding the bigger teams received they could have attracted more competitive riders and done much more development I'm positive they would have been as serious a contender on the circuit as any of the bigger two stroke teams. To call the HL's farm bikes is an insult to the effort that went into achieving so much with so little in such a short period in time.
Below: Bengt Aberg on his way to the chequered flag in the '77 Luxembeourg GP.                                                                  
                                                                      

extract from Torsten Hallmans book: Mr Motocross.
 In 1975, I had been the Yamaha distributor for Sweden for a couple of years and I heard of a new four stroke Yamaha that was for the US market, the XT500. Sten Lundin the former 1959 and 1961 500 World Champion was our service manager at the time and he was also very keen on this bike. We tried to get Yamaha Japan to send us some bikes but they refused - these bikes were supposed to be sold in the US only!  But our chance to get our hands on such a bike came at the 1975 Six Day Trials in England. Lars Larson, riding the Six Day Trials, knew about our interest and phoned me, telling me that there was an American rider entered in the event with a XT500. I told Lars - go ahead and buy the bike after the event! The rider agreed and the bike was purchased and shipped to Sweden immediately. Sten, being a big four stroke fan, was eager to examine it and decided that the stock chassis was lacking and decided to fit the motor in a Husqvarna chassis. A new project was now under way.

   Sten completely stripped the bike down and altered a Husky frame to accommodate the Yamaha motor as well as making several changes to the engine to make it lighter and stronger. When it was all done, a new bike was born, the Hallman & Eneqvist HL 500! We then decided to send the frame to Pro-fab in the US and have the frame copied. Pro-fab built a total of three frames for this bike. (Pro-fab later produced several Aberg-replica-frames for Hallman Racing Inc. sold on the open market.) The project took up almost all of 1976. As all this was going on, I had an idea to enter the bike in the 1977 500 GP's. Former 1969 and 1970 500 World Champion Bengt Aberg was contacted - he was also a big fan of 4-strokes bikes - and after testing the bike he loved it and agreed. Now we needed about 200.000:- SEK extra in funding from the Yamaha factory to do the entire grand-prix season. We, as the Yamaha-importer should put in the same amount ourselves in the project. I decided to contact the marketing people at Yamaha and arrange a meeting. At the meeting, I presented them a proposal and I promised them that the bike should create so much publicity that the bike would be on the cover of at least half of all the dirt bike magazines in the world along with numerous technical articles. I also promised that Bengt should be able to score some GP-points on the bike and to be within the first 10 in a couple of Grand Prix´s. They declined, they could not understand how a bike designed for the California off-road market could be a serious contender in the motocross GP´s! But I did not give up so easy! I decided to go to Amsterdam, the next step on the ladder, to the sales department there and present them the same proposal. They also declined and gave the same reasons.  My last chance was to go to the top-guy, Mr. Kuratomo, the same guy that hired me in the beginning. I showed Mr. Kuratomo the same proposal, photos of the bike and made the same promises about being on the cover of all the magazines etc. I told him that the marketing and sales people wasn't interested and declined and Yamaha shouldn't miss such an opportunity in PR for the single cylinder XT500 just being introduced on the European market. His response, only after listening for 5 minutes was "Who said no to this great idea - you can do this for 200.000:- SEK?  No problem, Mr. Kuratomo ordered funding for the project!

   Now that we were going to race the GP's, we decided to modify the motor. We even commissioned Hedlund to build a three valve head. The bike was very successful in its debut and Bengt scored the first points in a 500 GP since the 1960's with a four stroke engine. In the Luxembourg Grand Prix -77 he managed to win the first race as well as he got third in the second. Bengt and the HL 500 were actually a serious contender during the season and managed to get third place finishes in 4 more races during the season and finished in 9th position total in the World Championship! The bike was such a success, both scoring Grand Prix points but also a fantastic PR-project. Every motorcycle magazines had front pages and countless of articles and pictures of the incredible Yamaha 500cc single cylinder bike!  The sales of XT500 rocketed and Yamaha was happy! Later in was decided that Yamaha should build about 200 replicas of the HL500. (We in Sweden were not involved in this project.) These bikes had a chassis that was made in England and they were really not exact replicas. Actually they were not very good bikes at all.

   After all the success we had with the initial project, we now decided that the motor should be redesigned from the ground up. Sten had ideas on how to make a very light weight four stroke engine. I went back to Yamaha about this, but this time they declined saying it was just too big of a project. It is interesting to see over twenty years later, Yamaha picking up where we left off in 1977.

                                             

[Marc.com]

Thanks for the usual illuminating response Firko, it alway surprises me the amount of energy that goes into any HL discussion, I see it as being a bit like talking Harleys with unbelievers, the most strident critics tend not to have owned or ridden one.

Back to the Pro Tec TT600 that started this thread, the value of the engine has been over looked a bit, the original ProTec bikes were bored stroked, Jerry Branch ported, there are claims of close to 60 horses.

Which makes me ponder my dream HL500, probably OW forks and wheels, GMC frame, Bengt Abergs 3 valve engine

[JohnnyO]

That is a very interesting read Firko, Hallman states that Profab built the first frames yet most people think they came later after NVT, also he doesn't rate the NVT frames as being as good as Profab's.
People that call HL's farm bikes are just showing their ignorance and total lack of knowledge of motocross history.
The bike was obviously good to win a GP and finish in the top 10 in its first season plus the fact that Aberg was 33 years old and at the end of his GP career when racing the HL makes the results even more significant.

[GT43]

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-augusta-region/motorcycles/hl500/1015865958

[firko]

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-augusta-region/motorcycles/hl500/1015865958

that bike's as much a proper HL Yamaha as I am George Clooney. It's a Suzuki swing arm, is it a Husky frame? I can't quite pick it.

[JohnnyO]

I think that's the std Yamaha frame George...i mean Firko. It's got the oil filler in front of the tank and the curved cross member just below the tank.

[mick25]

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-augusta-region/motorcycles/hl500/1015865958

that bike's as much a proper HL Yamaha as I am George Clooney. It's a Suzuki swing arm, is it a Husky frame? I can't quite pick it.

Its a XT,TT500 frame and you are right firko a suzuki swing arm. he needs to change his add to TT500 wants to be a HL500

[Simo63]

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-augusta-region/motorcycles/hl500/1015865958

that bike's as much a proper HL Yamaha as I am George Clooney. It's a Suzuki swing arm, is it a Husky frame? I can't quite pick it.

I have a HL500 TRIBUTE bike.  Not a replica and certainly nothing like an original.  In fact, to his credit, the previous owner advertised it as a tribute bike and not a replica and I've stuck with that description.  It's a TT500 framed, SR500 powered, PE400 rear ended and YZ front ended and tanked frankenbike and I absolutely love it.

It is without doubt the most fun bike I've ridden for a looooong time .. I would recommend it to anyone 

[GT43]

Hmm lots of Sharks out there I guess.
I wouldn't have known if it was the real deal or not. 
Unless I was buying it, and checked the numbers.

Have to agree, it would be a hoot to ride, - but not for 9 grand, being a TT/XT.

[Graeme M]

All very good points Firko, and it raises an interesting issue. When you consider that 2-strokes came to dominate MX largely because the development from the Japanese went into them rather than 4-strokes, it makes you wonder whether the 4T isn't inherently superior for racing purposes. The Jap focus on 2-strokes may have been from a marketing viewpoint - that is, exploiting a competitive advantage. Both the CCM and the HL were very successful for the level of support, and even the KSI was a decent racebike. Then consider such machines as the Husky 510.

Had the Japanese begun seriously developing 4-strokes in the 80s, would the 2-stroke have remained dominant? Perhaps the HL is better viewed as a very serious opportunity that the marketplace missed?

[firko]

I think that's the std Yamaha frame George...i mean Firko. It's got the oil filler in front of the tank and the curved cross member just below the tank.

Yeah I worked it out pretty quickly but for some reason couldn't get back on to the forum to fix my post for some bloody reason and then I had to go out........Jesus I hate these listing bullshitters, the seller knows quite well that it's not a proper HL but still describes it as such. It's a lot like that world championship winning Wheelsmith Maico over in the Maico section. I do look a little like George Clooney though, don't you think ?

[JohnnyO]

I think that's the std Yamaha frame George...i mean Firko. It's got the oil filler in front of the tank and the curved cross member just below the tank.

Yeah I worked it out pretty quickly but for some reason couldn't get back on to the forum to fix my post for some bloody reason and then I had to go out........Jesus I hate these listing bullshitters, the seller knows quite well that it's not a proper HL but still describes it as such. It's a lot like that world championship winning Wheelsmith Maico over in the Maico section. I do look a little like George Clooney though, don't you think ?

Haha you look more like George Clooney than a HL Yamaha..  Yeah those lying sellers piss me off too

[Marc.com]

Had the Japanese begun seriously developing 4-strokes in the 80s, would the 2-stroke have remained dominant? Perhaps the HL is better viewed as a very serious opportunity that the marketplace missed?

The HL prticulalrly the NVT ones had a kind of funny status with Yamaha, where they even had the Yamaha brochures printed up and clearly were supplying engines. There are various stories like the 3 valve head got too close for comfort to Yamahas own patented multi valve set ups, that they were testing the water for a more serious TT500. I would say they felt they didn't want to compete with their own YZ, IT and existing TT500 which already sold well.

We could have all been blowing up high performance 4 strokes a decade earlier, which may be another reason, in 2 strokes they had a reliable high performance engine and may have considered a high performance 4 stroke as having too much potential to go bang.

[crash n bern]

You have to wonder if they are lying and silly enough to think people will believe it.     Or, if they actually believe it themselves.   Keep in mind that most on this forum live and breath old bikes and have a lot of knowledge. Hence why we are here, to share and learn.  But there are a lot of punters that are into bikes and don't read and haven't a clue about what they own, they just bought it because they liked it.  They might gloss over a few facts here and there and then make assumptions.  Believe it or not there are people who may be into a particular brand of bike, have a small collection of them and couldn't even tell you what year the models were.
Some people just ride them, or collect them and that's as far as it goes.

As for HL's  has anyone ever built an enduro version? 

[TM BILL]

You have to wonder if they are lying and silly enough to think people will believe it.     Or, if they actually believe it themselves.   Keep in mind that most on this forum live and breath old bikes and have a lot of knowledge. Hence why we are here, to share and learn.  But there are a lot of punters that are into bikes and don't read and haven't a clue about what they own, they just bought it because they liked it.  They might gloss over a few facts here and there and then make assumptions.  Believe it or not there are people who may be into a particular brand of bike, have a small collection of them and couldn't even tell you what year the models were.
Some people just ride them, or collect them and that's as far as it goes.

As for HL's  has anyone ever built an enduro version? 

Thats very true  we anoracks on here are quick to accuse somone of deliberatley trying to pull a fast one when what their selling is not what they have  advertised . At the end of the day if you know its not what he says it is DONT buy it 

There is certinaly an element who deliberatly bullshit and try to mislead especialy on ebay as Johnny O said , but some might actually not know what they have or dont have