OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => General Discussion => Topic started by: fatboyracing on March 16, 2010, 09:09:05 pm
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Hi All,
Just back from Clerk of the Course duties over the weekend at Penguin MX Track round 1 of the Tasmanian Championship ( Modern bikes) Boy we had some bad accidents and even worse injuries.We had some simple ones like broken teeth and hole in the tongue from handle bars hitting after loosing control going through the whoops.
We had one broken wrist which seemed like a very easy get off.
We had a guy who broke his tiber and fibular and the bones were poking through the skin
We had a guy with a very twisted knee
We had a broken collar bone and possible back injury
Sunday afternoon we had the worst crash I have seen at mx ever, about 3 mts from were I was standing and there was only two bikes involved. A fast rider tried to pass a slower rider and at the very time they got side by side their foot pegs got hooked and the slower rider was shot off at a hell of a speed catapulting him and his bike end over end for about 20mts leaving the rider with the worst injuries I have ever seen at mx. His shoulder was broken and dislocated that badly that it looked like it was nearly off the hole arm was a strange blue colour and had a graze right down. He also had a leg that was broken so badly that it was at right angles to the rest of his leg and he couldnt feel his arm or upper back. It was terrible it took the ambos one and three quarter hours to get him in a state were they could move him.
We just had a very bad two days nothing was wrong with the track it was great and the weather was good also just the first race for the year and maybe to the riders were just tring way to hard.
I hope that all the riders make a full recovery and we dont have another accident all year
Cheers
Fatboy
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Shit, that has put me off somewhat. i think i just lost my nerve to enter a meet at months end
scary shit there.
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Dont be too put off Hoony there was a fair bit of unluckyness involved in a few of those accidents and they were modern bikes and going around alot faster then our old vintage bikes can go.
Fatboy
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Geez, that fills me with confidence for the next meet. ;D
Still haven't got my knee doing what it should since last time.....I think knee guards are now on the list of must haves. ::)
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Pretty yucky stuff, fatboy. But as you rightly said, it's pretty uncommon to see injuries like that at an MX event.
The only 2 bad ones I've personally had to deal with were both in desert racing where the speeds are generally much higher.
One guy very sadly died on the spot and the other "just" had his femur poking out through his pants with red sand stuck to the end of it. :-\
In both cases I dealt with it at the time, but definitely rode even slower than normal for the rest of the day...............
Best wishes to those injured for a quick and full recovery.
Hoony and MX?: when you get a sniff of the guy in front of you next race day, I'm sure the last thing you'll be thinking of is this thread! :D
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Im 52 now just back riding in last 6 months. My first go back in the mid 70's lasted about 18 months before I retired hurt with believe it or not 19 left shoulder dislocations. Fast forward to 3 years ago and I got ability mixed up with ambition riding my mountain bike and shattered my right collarbone (worse thing was Im a paramedic and a workmate picked me up in the ambulance and put shit on me all the way to hospital!) As a consequence I have 125mm Titanium screw and a bone graft holding it all together. You wouldn't read about it but my son was racing his mountain bike in the US on the same day and he hit a tree and dislocated his shoulder! Anyway there's no fool like an old fool and I hopefully will have the old Bulty sorted and am looking forward to the VCM races down here in sunny Victoria. Jerry
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Not a nice one either :'( :'( :-X
"I was completing my last 30 minutes moto for the day when I got cross rutted on one of the jumps and went down hard, hitting my jaw on the crossbar of the handlebars," Townley said.
"On the positive side it was a clean break and doctors have gone in through the inside of my cheek and put a plate in. It's going to be a bit awkward for the next few days but I've been through so much in the last few years I'm sure I'll get over this one pretty quickly," Townley explained.
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they were modern bikes and going around alot faster then our old vintage bikes can go.
With respect (you were there) but most modern MX laps are slowed down by HUGE jumps and GIGANTIC whoops ;D.
But seriously VMX tracks are a lot smoother and average speeds are quite high in relation to modern MX.
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"But seriously VMX tracks are a lot smoother and average speeds are quite high"
Not when I'm ridin' 'em
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they were modern bikes and going around alot faster then our old vintage bikes can go.
With respect (you were there) but most modern MX laps are slowed down by HUGE jumps and GIGANTIC whoops ;D. SX ??
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Put a pre75/85 rider/bike and a 2011 modern rider/bike on the same track here in the south west and Ill eat my hat if that modern doesnt come around 1/2 lap in front...
Modern bikes are just as dangerous if not more and when you come down hard off a 450 2011 you come down hard.
Has anyone got any stats on MX injuries or speed ??
cheers
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may be but modern bikes are sure as hell quicker and i dont think that anyone realy thinks about the end result much anymore you only have to look at the way people abuse the machines these days. I know i sound like an old fart but smoking tyres and holding engines on the rev limiter is no way to treat a loved one. and scars and broken bones are the thing that makes you a bigger man. NOT
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I might be wrong, but one thing I find curious is the lack of grading nowadays. Our local track seems to have just one class for everyone per capacity class - Lites, Opens, All Powers. I simply don't race there anymore because I am so much slower than a fast guy that the speed differential is huge. Luckily it seems they are going to a Pro/Clubman class structure this year. That's got to be an improvement.
But regardless, a modern 450 gathers speed very quickly and I think the modern tracks don't reward less than good skills - big whoops and big jumps are tough on people who are average riders but with a 450 under them.
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Put a pre75/85 rider/bike and a 2011 modern rider/bike on the same track here in the south west and Ill eat my hat if that modern doesnt come around 1/2 lap in front...
I'm not disputing that but put a good rider on a VMX bike, say a 490 Maico, and put him round a "proper" VMX lap and I reckon his average speed would be higher than the same rider on a modern bike on a modern circuit.
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Ouch!
I just got ten miles per hour faster in reverse!
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Put a pre75/85 rider/bike and a 2011 modern rider/bike on the same track here in the south west and Ill eat my hat if that modern doesnt come around 1/2 lap in front...
I'm not disputing that but put a good rider on a VMX bike, say a 490 Maico, and put him round a "proper" VMX lap and I reckon his average speed would be higher than the same rider on a modern bike on a modern circuit.
different tracks -- we'll have to set it up on skype oneday ;D
cheers A
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Horrifying Thread :-[
Worst MX Injuries? Haven't done a lot of MX, Have done a lot of motorcycle ridding though.
Where would I start ???
Placed disc lock just in front of the K100RS fork leg one day. Amazing when you plant it how much steam you can build before the wheel has traveled nearly one revolution ::) I laid on the deck as stunned as the Major of Hiroshima.
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Are there more people racing now than years ago? Back in the dark ages (Early seventies) there didn't seem to be many injuries. The worst you saw was maybe a broken leg and that only seemed to happen once a year or so. I don't ever remember hearing of deaths at motocross. Is there a different mentality as well these days, more a "Win at any cost"?
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Horrifying Thread :-[
Worst MX Injuries? Haven't done a lot of MX, Have done a lot of motorcycle ridding though.
Where would I start ::)
One day revving 11, to get air on the apex of a hill, some other life support system for a penis had the same intention from the opposite direction. Open faced helmet we met at the top. My teeth on to his crash hat, I continued forward like a hang glider pilot without a hang glider, all the time watching my teeth fly three foot in front of me. Until I came back down to earth, never saw the teeth again. Till this day, I continue to wonder why my tooth fairy still only drives a BMW.
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Hi Guys,
The guy I spoke of in the first post with the broken shoulder and leg is still in a bad way and will be for ever he is going to have his arm off as the main artery to it was damaged and the blood flow was stopped . 22 years old and he is now disabled makes you think. MA are making a insurance payout but that will not give him back his life. 3 tracks in Tassie average about 50km. I just think that the bikes are too fast, tracks are to fast and riders ride beyond their capabilities. I just hope this season will be better last year 5 rounds of Tasmanian Motocross championship saw 8 broken legs, 6 broken arms/shoulders and lots of collarbone injuries with out the minor incidents of broken teeth cuts and bruises. No major neck injuries thanks to the braces that all riders are wearing. We did have a very strange one where a rider got stuck in his own back wheel and got some damage to his nuts from the back wheel and burns from the muffler. It looked horrible he went over a big table top fell off the back in the air and when he landed he caught up to the bike and went straight in under the back guard .We had to prize him out of there very carefully as he did need surgery to his testys. :o
Ride safe
Fatboy
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From my understanding the FIM has a average lap speed limit of 55kph, as long as you put in a couple of chicanes in somewhere in the lap you can make it as fast as you want
I'm pretty sure 1 of the kids that got killed over here a few years ago was from being sucked into the back of a bike, larger body is stronger in that sense
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The guy I spoke of in the first post with the broken shoulder and leg is still in a bad way and will be for ever he is going to have his arm off as the main artery to it was damaged and the blood flow was stopped . 22 years old and he is now disabled makes you think.
Well that sucks.
Young Anton probably had a chill run down his spine if he read that.
Here I am whinging about my leg that’s giving me a heap of grief.
I suspect an old spectator injury to be the cause.
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IMO (talking about MX) it's not about the speed it's the "jump threw the hoop" section's of the tracks today, especially the "rhythm sections" which they wrongly call whoops! and the extreme(SX type) jumps ! mix that with powerful bike's and inexperience and you have a deadly cocktail! :-\ Keep SX section's on SX track's, MX isnt about doing tricks for the crowd it's about the racing! you still have to beat the bloke next to you without the bull shit! ???
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The guy I spoke of in the first post with the broken shoulder and leg is still in a bad way and will be for ever he is going to have his arm off as the main artery to it was damaged and the blood flow was stopped . 22 years old and he is now disabled makes you think.
Well that sucks.
Young Anton probably had a chill run down his spine if he read that.
Here I am whinging about my leg that’s giving me a heap of grief.
I suspect an old spectator injury to be the cause.
That's really does suk. Sadly sickening :-[ I wish I had of read all the previous posts thoroughly first, I would have put my posts elsewhere or not at all :-[
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More for the younger vmxer's reading!!
Because the older ones have blown out carbies etc with the air compresser and have learnt earlier on in life :)
If sharing jerry cans of fuel,make sure the yellow insert funnel is a good snug fit as 2 litres of fuel in your eyes before practise is not a nice start to the race day :'( :'(
cheers A
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Young Anton probably had a chill run down his spine if he read that.
Anton Alers?
It's a problem that some of the fastest machines on earth are so easily available to any kid regardless of experience - obviously road bikes are worse.
Accidents have a bit of luck involved too, the worst for me was stepping off a '97 CR250 flat in 5th gear yet walked away a little bruised however I stepped off a CZ400 just out of 1st gear into 2nd and spent the next 3 months with my arm in plaster and 17 stitches in my leg - go figure.
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FB - I don't have to worry about my testys - coz after reading this they are now two little lumps hiding behind my ears! Sorry to hear about the young fella - not nice no matter how it is looked at.
Rossco
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Now I know why I didn,t like the MX special tests in Enduros.
Glad I never took it up.
Worst injury in an Enduro was a broken little finger. :)
Trail riding and riding to work is another matter. ;D
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I reckon there's way more chance of a serious injury in an enduro.
I was tired and inattentive and failed to duck far enough under a fallen tree. Copped a big whack on the head, saw double, massive headache and all that - but hey, no real harm done. What really put the wind up me was thinking about the four previous laps where I'd gone under the same tree much faster and must have missed cracking my noggin by millimetres...
While I feel a ton of sympathy for people who are seriously injured while riding bikes, and hearing about them always makes me stop and think about my own vulnerability & my own place in the universe, I also know and accept the risks I take when I'm riding.
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I was tired and inattentive and failed to duck far enough under a fallen tree. Copped a big whack on the head, saw double, massive headache and all that - but hey, no real harm done. What really put the wind up me was thinking about the four previous laps where I'd gone under the same tree much faster and must have missed cracking my noggin by millimetres...
If you were doing laps it wasn't an enduro ;) :).
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You weren't there.... it hurt more than the Twelve Hour. Seriously, it was like most modern enduros with repeated trails. What was made easier by the repeated course was outweighed by the tight schedule.
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"Motocross is a dangerous sport. You may be injured, killed or have your goolies re-arranged"
That means close to nothing in a courtroom.
Track designers/organizers have a responsibility to ensure that a track can be negotiated with reasonable skill and safety - if you put a 50 meter high double in a track there is no doubt some 'fearless' riders will attempt it so you don't do it. Often riders do not ride to their limits, they often don't know their own limits hence you have to plan around them.
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In NSW at least, it actually does mean something. The laws were changed so that disclaimers actually mean something, particularly in the context of people CHOOSING to participate in an inherently risky activity.
Its relatively common for riders to withdraw before racing starts, ands have their entry refunded.
The "opt out" clause at the rider's briefing cuts off any future option of getting up in a court room and saying you were feeling pressured into riding on a track you felt was dangerous.
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The way the guy worded the disclaimer at CD7 was brilliant.
" If you find something you consider dangerous please come and tell us " or something that meant the same.
Puts the responsibility straight back on the complainer.
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Youngest son gave away mx/dt to concentrate on swimming a few years back, but made many good mates in Cental Queensland. Was supposed to go to a 21st early next month in Mackay, but young William Rassmussen had an accident at Middlemount 2 weekends back. Battled on for a few days on life support but eventually succumbed and parents had to turn off the machine. Hard to ever imagine yourself as a parent having to do that. We can all reel off the bullshit and act out the racers creed, but these accidents affect many people for life. While track design is not free flowing like the old days there are many worse injuries in modern mx and dirt track. Rest in Peace, Rassy #199. Mackay has had a shit year MX wise with Stevie Dinsdale also passing.
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I agree that mixing A, B & C grades together is a recipe for danger, we have the same issues in roadracing at the moment; too many red flags as the C graders come off on cold tyres.
I rode MX at Seymour (Northern region Championship) on the weekend (first time in many years), I rode over 45's which was combined with over 35's & Ladies (yeh a couple of them smoked me lol), I see over 35's as a bit of a joke; there are still some fast A graders in their late 30's. I think it should be 'over 40' & 'over 50'.
I also rode in the A, B & C grade open class; the speed differential was terrifying!
I haven't ridden any VMX events as yet (still looking for that RM250B ;-) ), I guess that as the majority of riders are older that speeds and chance-taking would be a little different (I hope).
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i cut my finger once putting a tear off on my googles, should have warning labels on the packets ::)
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A number of people here are well aware of "the guy who broke his leg" at a BMCC race and the many years of stress suffered by the club and QMA over it and the rather large payout he received.
In VMX I have seen one guy lose a testicle and many here know George McKenzie who broke an ankle after the finish line one time at Veresdale.
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Injuries broken both lower legs , collar bones , lower arms and a number of Concussions :)
That means close to nothing in a courtroom.
Track designers/organizers have a responsibility to ensure that a track can be negotiated with reasonable skill and safety - if you put a 50 meter high double in a track there is no doubt some 'fearless' riders will attempt it so you don't do it. Often riders do not ride to their limits, they often don't know their own limits hence you have to plan around them.
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Are you stating the facts or is this what you believe ? if its the former then im not supprised just dissolusioned and dissapointed in the PC Nanna state that we allow ourselves to live in today .
If its the latter then i feel for you .
Im so sick of the old we must make the tracks Nanna proof in case somone breaks a finger nail or suffers a broken heart ::) I believe the majority of ADULT motorsport competitors know the risk and thats part of the attraction in what we do . Wev'e all suffered injuries and know some poor bastard whos had a serious one or even fatal accident while riding or racing . Anyone iv'e spoken to over the years who have sadly had life changing accidents have all said they have no regrets and basicly shit happens . I have lost more mates to evil illnesses and desperation than to riding accidents and at my age i would rather go doing somthing i love than to some poxy sickness. If its all to much take up play station , but leave the tracks alone, sure there can be big doubles etc but if you aint happy single them i do ;)
Claiming clubs have a duty to make tracks safe is all very well but whats safe ??? what you consider safe and what i consider safe are probably very different and different to the next bloke :o If you dont like the look of a track dont ride it ;)
Its typical of todays society to always look to blame somone else for everything that goes pearshaped ::) What do Supercross and crossing the road have in common ???
It all about timing ;)
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Claiming clubs have a duty to make tracks safe is all very well but whats safe ??? what you consider safe and what i consider safe are probably very different and different to the next bloke :o If you dont like the look of a track dont ride it ;)
Saying don't ride it if you don't like it is way to simplistic, people crash/lose control of bikes all the time from the worst to the best riders non exclusive and you have to consider what may eventuate when those people lose control. People who lay out tracks take those things into consideration and use foresight these days and then it's approved by a MA Steward.
Gone are the days of fence posts with a few tyres thrown over them on the edge of the track (not to mention the barbed wire in between) etc.
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"On the positive side it was a clean break and doctors have gone in through the inside of my cheek and put a plate in. It's going to be a bit awkward for the next few days but I've been through so much in the last few years I'm sure I'll get over this one pretty quickly," Townley explained.
Ben and the boys always shock me with how much punishment they can take and shrug it off. Also the attitude of the pro riders is pretty much that they are going to break a few things along the way and it is a cost of doing business.
My mate got tackled hard in the chest during a Rugby game when he was 20, killed him stone dead, so any sport has its risks i suppose/
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Here are the official stats on what is the most dangerous sport, based on my observations of Rugby, MX is much safer.
According to the Medibank Private Safe Sports Report 2006, the top 10 most injury-prone sports (based on patient presentations to Australian hospital emergency departments and general medical practices) are:
1. Australian Rules Football
2. Basketball
3. Netball
4. Running
5. Tennis
6. Cricket
7. Soccer
8. Aerobics
9. Rugby League
10. Rugby Union
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Claiming clubs have a duty to make tracks safe is all very well but whats safe ??? what you consider safe and what i consider safe are probably very different and different to the next bloke :o If you dont like the look of a track dont ride it ;)
Gone are the days of fence posts with a few tyres thrown over them on the edge of the track (not to mention the barbed wire in between) etc.
WHY ::)
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My mate got tackled hard in the chest during a Rugby game when he was 20, killed him stone dead, so any sport has its risks i suppose/
Yep. My next-door-neighbour was killed in a Rugby scrum with a broken neck. Only 22 also.
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FB - I don't have to worry about my testys - coz after reading this they are now two little lumps hiding behind my ears! Rossco
;D NOW that is FUNNY! ;D
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Yep. My next-door-neighbour was killed in a Rugby scrum with a broken neck. Only 22 also.
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Not to mention the ones that end up in wheel chairs, players got bigger and faster a bit like MX bikes and the cost of getting it wrong got higher.
I think on a modern 450 4 stroke the speed is much more accessable by more riders, the bikes are more tractable than the old 2 stroke hammers and transmit power into forward movement much easier. Then you need a track with the obstacles further back, or you educate hyped up 20 years olds to back off ::)
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Here are the official stats on what is the most dangerous sport, based on my observations of Rugby, MX is much safer.
According to the Medibank Private Safe Sports Report 2006, the top 10 most injury-prone sports (based on patient presentations to Australian hospital emergency departments and general medical practices) are:
1. Australian Rules Football
2. Basketball
3. Netball
4. Running
5. Tennis
6. Cricket
7. Soccer
8. Aerobics
9. Rugby League
10. Rugby Union
Means nothing unless you know how many people participate and how often.
For the sake of the argument: if there's 100,000 people playing AFL every weekend, and there's only 10,000 people playing Union once per month, then AFL would actually be the safer sport.
(For the pedants: Unless AFL presented 40 times as many patients as Union [10 times as many participants, playing four times as many games = 40]).
The UK MSA did this for rallying a few years back - basically, they worked out the injury rate for rallies relative to the total number competitive kilometres travelled, and also against the number of competitors. Then they realised that it was a hell of a lot safer than the raw numbers lead them to believe.
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not a good look for knee guards,but good for antibiotic company...
quote;Now that, is seriously gnarly! Glenn Kearney went down on the third day of competition at the ISDE, and still rode for three hours before getting his knee stitched up!
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/vmx247/injuries.jpg)
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I'd be horizontal if I was looking at a cut like that on my own knee, triple ouch.
So are you saying Alison that the knee guard was responsible for that? apart from the crash of course.