OzVMX Forum
Clubroom => Vinduro => Topic started by: GMC on December 04, 2009, 09:45:59 pm
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What should the cut-off date be for Vinduro bikes?
Twin shock?
Pre 85?
Pre 90?
Or something else again?
I feel that Twin shock would limit allowable bikes too much, there are many single shock old school bikes that I believe are Vinduro friendly
Pre 85 has been the format for Vic. but the casual allowance of some later bikes seems to have some questioning what is & isn’t allowed.
1985 though is nothing more than a number that sits neatly in the middle of a decade. The year 85 bears no real evolution breakthrough for Enduro bikes. In fact the whole of the 80’s was a changing period for off road bikes. 1980 started with evolution bikes (twin shock, aircooled, drum brakes) but was also when linkage suspension was introduced.
All the brands updated different parts in different years until by 89 most had evolved to…
Water cooling.
Double discs.
Linkage suspension.
Upside down forks.
It’s these four criteria that tend to define a modern bike to me.
Pre 90 doesn’t cut it with me either
The 89 KDX 200 for example has all those modern traits & as such I don’t believe it belongs in Vinduro’s.
Also if you allowed it then you have follow on KDX 200’s from the early nineties coming in as they were much the same for a few years.
But the 88 & earlier KDX 200 was still air cooled & therefore still seems “oldschool” to me. Even the linkage suspension was the old rocker arm type, the 89 model updated to the lower link suspension that is typical of all moderns.
The post 85 IT200 is another. Updated to disc front but still air cooled, I consider all the WR models moderns but any IT model as “old school”
I know of some 85/86 Maico’s. They are modern in performance, yet still appeal to me as “old school”. Maybe because they are an obsolete brand that makes me feel this way.
Some Huskys have that old school feel too, I think the Cagiva takeover changed them to moderns.
There are many other models that fall into a similar theme.
As brands evolved in so many different ways it’s hard to define them by year alone.
The MX classes, even though named by year are essentially defined by their technological evolution.
I think Pre 88 or Pre 87 may be more rational, but what ever is decided you will probably find a reasonable exception.
It would be nice to come up with a national standard.
What are your thoughts?
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Ahhhhh snap...I was just posting the same sort of thing over on the enduro bike board....seems great minds are arriving at the same point in history...or not. ;D
Anyway my original post was as follows....**********
I have been thinking about Vinduro rules lately as a result of some discussion on OZVMX and the fact there is not a current rule code formally "out there", which aint a bad thing at this stage either. Wink
Given that the Vinduro scene is just starting out (sort of...Vic is way ahead of most states) and hopefully hotting up then I think it is good to keep the events open to as many as possible, within some reasonable guidelines, and run as non-comptetitive events as well.
I am trying to get 1 or more Vinduros happening in 2010 so this has also got me thinking about "the rules".
What do people think of the following?
The ACT club has an Evo bike criteria that I think could be adapted to well suit the Vinduro concept. The basics of these are that bikes should be;
Drum rear brake and "conventional" front forks (no upside down forks) ......and I would suggest a headlight (but it need not be functioning). This would open a wide range of bikes but keep within the spirit of the Vinduro concept...I think. It makes some mid to late 1980s bikes eligible (front discs) and why not as some are basically the same model with a front disc instead of a front drum. Water cooling may be pushing it a bit...open to discussion on that one. Maybe a cut off of pre 1990 might also help.
Am not too sure on tail lights as a lot of bikes have had them badly damaged and/or removed and it seems a very minor requirement.
The question of including some/all MX bikes with an added headlight (which seems to have been possible in eduro days of old) is a curly one and open for discussion I guess. My gut feeling is to not exclude it but not encourage it.
In summary, the aim and expectation would be to attract and have the majority of bikes being of drum/drum brake configuration with standard forks and most likely made prior to 1985, participating in a fun non-race event as is underway in the various Victorian meets held to date. ******
I agree with all your points, while aligning it to some aspects of technology seems a good idea it can get very complicated and there is always the exception.
The best I can think of right now that would include the widest range of bikes to get a good participation rate going (and still be in the spirit of Vinduro) would be maybe pre 1990 and no rear discs...or you could say pre 1990 and air cooled only.
I think at this stage clear and simple is good for an event that should be fun and get a wide range of great older bikes. :)
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The concept of mx and enduro bikes is an interesting topic. In the 80's I raced an MX bike with the light etc. We did a lot of desert racing so the advantages of low gearing were not a big requirement.
I do agree with the concept of keeping it within the spirit of the era though. If it was made and sold as an enduro bike with lights and winkies then its enduro, make the age cut off what you like, but MX bikes are mx bikes regardless of the bits you hang off them!
Sort out the eligibility and then sort out the age group. 8)
cheers S&A WA
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Just my two bobs worth ( & it's probably not even worth that , as I haven't actually ridden in a vinduro yet ). But I did compete this year in a vintage pony express at Malanda in FNQ & had an extremely fun time . The rules for machines at that event were simply : pre '85 , aircooled & no disc brakes, with under 200cc and over 200cc classes . I think it was a great concept & worked quite well . A couple of young blokes on an '84 KDX200 were about half a lap in front ,until it nipped up. There wasn't a huge number of bikes for this first time event, but there seemed to be a lot of talk from spectators about having bikes ready for at least 2 or 3 events planned for next year .
Anyway, my feeling is that disc brakes & watercooling should not be be allowed in vinduro events, as these two features offer unfair advantage over drum braked, aircooled bikes. The pre '85 year cutoff is probably a reasonable guideline, but there could be scope for allowing some post '85 models that were still aircooled & had drum brakes . Some examples of machines that would not comply, even with a pre '85 cutoff would be the watercooled '84 Husky WR400 & the '83/84 Honda XR500. The '83 XR500 honda had a very good, twin piston caliper, disc brake on the front & I could never understand why Honda didn't fit it to the '83 CR480 as well ???.
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Yeh but then some 85 models are identical to 1984 models so why should you then have to go and get the same thing but 1 year earlier just to ride a "friendly Vinduro". The 86 IT200S is nearly the same as its previous drum brake models but just has the disc...and it aint that great I can assure you... ;D..it surely aint any 'advantage' to me. And the concept of an 'advatage' in a non-race format is pointless. IF it gets to serious racing one day then maybe things need to be tighter, but for now we need all the riders and bikes we can get out of sheds and onto the track. :D
Canam370 suggested.......
How about pre 85, pre 90 and a Special interest class for modifieds from the 2 'era's'?
I think this seems a good idea and a good compromise.
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Canam370 suggested.......
How about pre 85, pre 90 and a Special interest class for modifieds from the 2 'era's'?
What classes to run if the events become competitive is another can of worms again.
As the events in Vic so far & I think NSW as well, have all been non competitive then I feel classes & disc brakes are irrelevant. This is more about what is the youngest bike that should be allowed a ride?
While I would be interested in a competitive event, I can't help but feel this would ruin the events. The casual relaxed atmosphere is what makes them so great.
Pre 85 was the suggested cut off, but the casual allowance of some 86 & 88 models has upset some.
I don't feel that these models are that much out of place with these events & so maybe we should move the cut off to Pre88 & then be stricter with it?
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Yep I dont really care what the date is but what ever it is then that should be it and no exceptions.
Cheers Mick.
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I'm not sure why people would be upset as to a few later models joining in given all the events to date (and probably the forseable future) have been recreational fun events for older enduro bikes and fans.
Maybe at the moment a 'guideline' of pre 89 might be the go (based on the KDX example) but it would be sad to see potential riders turned away if their bike was within the spirit of the event but didn't meet the year rule etc.
I just don't think turning away any interested riders that have made an effort with an older enduro or enduro like/modified bike is viable at the moment for a recreational event format. It's gotta be all about having FUN with the older bikes. But yes, anything obviously recent, 'modern', dangerous, etc should not be turning up.
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Ok,I agree with all youse people that the need for good,basic rules,for vinduros is foremost.
But,the rules need to be sorted now.Before a fun blast round the loops,turns into a scruiteneering nightmare,later.
Pre 85,air cooled and drum brakes,seem to be the consensus here.
But.....I have a 1984 TS250,which is watercooled and has front disc.
So,do I have to move to another suggested era,maybe?
This bike is not cutting edge or a stepping stone to spectacular vinduro wins.
So,whats to be done?
Firstly: PRE 85,means exactly that.It wuz built before 1985!
Some seem to think its the old school look they like to see go round the loops.Thats fine.I love aircooled too,got a shed full of 'em.Like to see 'em blast the loops,tracks,etc.
So,if you want to do that,organise it so the rules state:
Pre watercooled,no front disc,etc.
Whatever years preceeding the advent of watercooled and disc brake enduro bikes were available,start it from that period.No exceptions.
The IT had front disc brakes,but had the same as previous years IT's performance capabilities.
Too bad.IT DON'T MAKE IT!You see my point?
Pick the era,before all the mods that changed the bikes to be far too advanced for earlier type enduro bikes,to compete,competively against.That way we will have a real base starting date to give birth to pre-whatever year vinduros.Then sort the year models cut off dates upwards to evo's:Say: 85,87,90,open.
Otherwise,if and when,this sport of ours takes off(vinduro),we'll have a revolution on hand about rule guidelines.Then;cleaning the shit cans,is gunna get a whole lot harder! ;)
I leave you with a quote from an ok-ish movie;'If you build it,they will come.'
Thats my fifty bucks.
Cheers,Mark.
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Firstly: PRE 85,means exactly that.It wuz built before 1985!
That is not quite right. Pre 85 means pre 85 models (models up to and including 84) You can have a bike built in lets say February 1985 which is during 1985 that is a 84 model but it is legal for pre 85. It doesnt actually have to be built pre 85, A late run 84 model built during the first half of 85 is ok.
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Vinduro wins? Are we really racing? Against who and what? Isn't this supposed to be FUN and inclusive and recreational? That's the whole attraction to me for the Vinduros. Great bikes, great riding, great fun. No pressure, no racing (yet). Until it gets serious (if ever) with races for sheep stations (or whatever) then it's gotta be about getting bikes and blokes/gals out of sheds and back into some fun riding days where all the family can participate if they like.
Ok for me it's pre 89 or 90 and welcome to all. If a 1989 KDX200 turns up (or similar) and wants to have some fun then so be it. There is no absolute year cut off that can be applied that will make a clean cut off between the technology used, the bike makers introduced water cooling, discs, USD forks etc all over the place in the 1980s (and maybe before).
Until this is serious racing (and some of the issues that then come up will more than likely wreck the whole concept with infighting and bickering) then lets be open to all those seriously interested in the recreational sport.
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Ok for me it's pre 90 and welcome to all. If a 1989 KDX200 turns up (or similar) and wants to have some fun then so be it. There is no absolute year cut off that can be applied that will make a clean cut off between the technology used, the bike makers introduced water cooling, discs, USD forks etc all over the place in the 1980s (and maybe before).
yep i agree :)
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If it becomes a RACE or raised to a competition level event, were out. We being a group of 8.
The whole attraction of VINDURO's is being able to escape without the pressure of competition, drink beer and tell a whole lot of lies. Drakey got the formula right here in VIC, please let it be that way.
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If it becomes a RACE or raised to a competition level event, were out. We being a group of 8.
The whole attraction of VINDURO's is being able to escape without the pressure of competition, drink beer and tell a whole lot of lies. Drakey got the formula right here in VIC, please let it be that way.
True ,so if the hosting club run's the event under a Rec license, that's all it will ever have to be 8)
No comp-- no trophy's ;D :P..just fun fun fun :P
Waiting on Drakies input when he returns. :P
cheers
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If it becomes a RACE or raised to a competition level event, were out. We being a group of 8.
The whole attraction of VINDURO's is being able to escape without the pressure of competition, drink beer and tell a whole lot of lies. Drakey got the formula right here in VIC, please let it be that way.
True ,so if the hosting club run's the event under a Rec license, that's all it will ever have to be 8)
No comp-- no trophy's ;D :P..just fun fun fun :P
Waiting on Drakies input when he returns. :P
cheers
Agree totally...rec riding, rec licence, very simple guidelines and F U N .....FUN! :)
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We've finally come the full loop, a couple of days ago I suggested we just get some events happening and have some FUN!!
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If it becomes a RACE or raised to a competition level event, were out. We being a group of 8.
The whole attraction of VINDURO's is being able to escape without the pressure of competition, drink beer and tell a whole lot of lies. Drakey got the formula right here in VIC, please let it be that way.
True ,so if the hosting club run's the event under a Rec license, that's all it will ever have to be 8)
No comp-- no trophy's ;D :P..just fun fun fun :P
Waiting on Drakies input when he returns. :P
cheers
Agree totally...rec riding, rec licence, very simple guidelines and F U N .....FUN! :)
and this is a similar concept of how VMXWA is run and has been for the last 15 years...
If it ain't broke,don't fix it :P
oh did I tell you about our 15th Anniversary ...well I'll let you read the latest VMX Magazine-we are in there ;) ;D
cheers
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I think Pre 88 or Pre 87 may be more rational, but what ever is decided you will probably find a reasonable exception.
IMO, GMC has it right. I have always said Pre90 knowing it was floored but simple. My vote now is Pre88.
As for racing, if your not racing, your just stamp collecting. I would hope there are people who aspire to run some competition vinduros. They are full on comps in Europe and they seem to have a good time. I'm not saying they should all be comps but it would be great to see one or two.
Cheers
Noel
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I agree with the year cut off system of classification, i.e. Pre 1985, and if there was enough interest from those with other bikes, either earlier or later, Pre 1978 and pre 1990. If you are ridding for the fun of ridding then a technical adantage that someone on another bike may have is irrelavent.
If the events are to be a competetive "races" then still use the year system with no technical limitations, and if you want to win, choose your bike appropriatlly, don't try and race something that isn't going to be competetive unless the rules are made to suit your choice of bike!
I put forward my veiws as someone who has been ridding in what could be classed as a competetive Vinduro class; Class M (bike over 20 years old, i.e. Pre 1990 this year) in the SA reliability Trial Series. I have been riding in this series for 2 years now on a period modified 1976 Yamaha XT500C. This year the main opposition, Paul Collins, was riding a 1989 KX250 (yes, a road registered MX'er). He won all 4 round (of 6) that he entered by a long way, generally about 15 minutes quicker than my times. I got minor placings and won the class in one of the two rounds that he didn't ride (I DNF the other, but was the only entry so it basically didn't count), the net result was that I ended up with the overall series win, so a hugh technical advantage to him meant nothing in the end.
Now I can and do complain that there is a hugh technical advantage in favor of those who choose to ride the most modern bikes that are eligible in the class, and I did put in a written submission through MSA to have the class limited to pre '85 last year, but it is MY CHOICE to ride a 1976 XT500, so I live with my choice. I am having fun, and will continue to ride the series on the XT as long as the old body (51 years and ageing quicker than I would like) will allow, and with a bit of luck I might actually finish the 24Hr if I keep trying.
As an aside to prove that technical advantages are not everthing; in one round of the series (the Mike Connor 6hr), Shane Kraft rode a near stock 1977 TT500D in the Expert Class. Yes he did finish last in the Experts, but with a overall place of 40th (from memory) out of a feild of over 100 riders. An awefully lot of those who finished after Shane were riding the latest model Yamaha, Honda and KTM enduro weapons, which proves that it is quality of the rider which counts, not quality of the bike!
CJ
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Drakey got the formula right here in VIC, please let it be that way.
Exactly.
Cut off date? Pre 85, like it is now. Pre 85 is in some respects an arbitrary date, but it keeps it simple. GMC makes good points about enduro bike evolution, but not everyone has the same level of knowledge or understanding when it comes to dirt bike history.
Modified motocrossers? Why not? Follow-on models? Definitely. What exactly are people worried about anyway? We're gonna be swamped with Post 85 bikes and motocrossers?! It's been three years and it hasn't happened yet.
I've been to all but one of the Vic Vinduros since they started. Off the top of my head I can recall seeing a total of four modified motocrossers. Some of these include some very nicely modified examples, including a sweet CR125 with an XR200 engine. I don't want to see regular MX bikes out there, but people did ride modified motocrossers back in the day, and if someone's made an effort then why not?
Yes, some post 85 bikes have also been present, but again as far as I can see it's one or two bikes at each meeting (if at all), and never the same ones. Not exactly a flood is it? Ideally there would be none, but sometimes there could be genuine reasons why someone brought a slightly later model bike that day ("Pre 85 bike blew up the day before", "I thought this was an 84 model", "I just want to see what Vinduros are like before I commit & buy a Pre 85 bike", etc, etc).
As I understood it, follow-on models are bikes that did not change after 1984. This mostly applies to a handful of trailbikes. For example the XT250 was released in 1980, but was made up until 1989 with no changes at all aside from graphics. So, why shouldn't someone ride an 1988 XT250? And if these kind of bikes aren't allowed then are we going to have someone checking compliance plates?
Is it really in the spirit to turn someone away, who drove for two hours, whose bike doesn't quite fit the criteria? Bear in mind that currently Vic Vinduros are non-competitive, so there's no real advantage to be had. If they become a race, then rigidly enforced classes will obviously have to be in place. Personally I don't want to see them become competitive.
We're onto a good thing down here, and while numbers have been good, they have been average at some events. We shouldn't be looking for new ways to exclude people. The rules have always been clear to me, and thus far they have been applied with common sense.
If it ain't broke,don't fix it
That's right.
Cheers
Tex
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If people want Pre 85 all good and well I am happy with that as my bikes are no older than 81 models, but nothing after Pre 85 should be allowed or it is just a joke,,,,if there is going to be a cut off date then that is it,,but if so called run on models are allowed in then dont bother calling it Pre 85 you cant have a date and then let people have newer models than that it's just not right, and I dont care if Vinduro is for fun or racing if it stays as fun then by running a newer bike you are not within the spirit of the date picked and if it is racing then you would be braking the rules.
Sues bike DT 175 was built on the 12/84 but it is a 85 model,,,,so if they brought a rule in that said rules go by year model not date built model then even though her bike did not change much at all for years we would not use that bike because it would not be within the spirit or rules of Vinduro,,I'm not to smart but thats simple for me to understand.
Cheers Mick.
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yeah Colin, Ive heard they have put a cap on it being pre 90 in the road trials and its not going to be kept opening up one more newer year each yr which is good.
Mick has it in a nut shell - have a cut off date and strongly enforce it and no follow on models. ;)
If there is a follow one rule, that opens up a whole can of worms and we end up with the arguments and fights about what is legal and what is not like we have in VMX.
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I don’t believe that follow on models have ever caused any other problem except for debating if they are the same or not.
I can’t see any reason to ban one of 2 identical bikes based on build dates. If it is the same as an earlier model then that is what I would call spirit of the era.
We should be celebrating bikes, not years.
As to the cut off date, well their has been a couple of 86/87 models getting a run, & it would seem that most people don’t care. So if most don’t care why don’t we simply move the goal posts to Pre 88 & be done with it.
There is no real reason to have a cut off date that ends with a five or zero
I don’t want to change anything either, I agree that the formula is a good one & these events should remain non competitive.
Changing the format to Pre88 doesn’t change anything as some of these models have been getting a run anyway.
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If it's totally non-competitive, then it's just a trailride - go for Pre 85 and let in the follow on models. ::)
If it's competitive, then have hard and fast classes and stick to them! ;D
Class 1A/ Pre '75 up to 200cc
Class 1B/ Pre '75 over 200cc
Class 2A/ Pre '80 up to 200cc
Class 2B/ Pre '80 over 200cc
Class 3A/ Pre '85 up to 200cc
Class 3B/ Pre '85 over 200cc
Class 4/ Rally Class - Pre '85 and non competitive.
In the event of there being less than 5 entries in a class (or 3 or whatever number the club's happy with), then that division reverts to Unlimited.
i.e. 2 entries in class 1A and 3 in class 1B, then it runs as Class 1/ Pre '75 Unlimited.. Classes are able to be combined under the GCR's, so if there's not enough combine them.
You run Class 4 under one day licenses (which are available here in QLD - not sure about the rest of the country). Send them out last, stamp their cards at checkpoints, but no section times are recorded, no results, no trophies... QLD ran a similar Rally class at most rounds of the State Enduro series for years - not sure if they still do, but it worked well.
This way I think you'd get the best of both world, those that want to compete can, and against bikes around the same era. And those that want a fun day trailriding can too. :D
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And let people enter up a class! If someone on a '78 175 wants to ride in the Pre 85 over 200cc because that's where all his mates are, why not!! He's not going to be at any advantage, so let him ride with his mates... ;)
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They run a Rally Class in the reliability (road) trial series here in SA using oneday licences and no timing at the checkpoints, pretty much as you have described IT400C, with the rally class enteries only doing the daylight lap (i.e. lap 1 in the 6 - 8hr events and laps 1 & 4 in the 24Hr). The whole aim of the rally class is to get riders interested, before they have to spend big money on lighting systems.
I can't see the problem with "carry on" models, if a later bike is the same except for some minor difference and graphics as the pre- "what ever year" model, then what is the big deal. I think most guys who are licenced scrutineers/machine examiners (and even for a non-competetive event bike need to be examined) would know enough about bikes to know if someone was trying to pull a fast one, and as all/most of the events are not competetive again where is the harm in some one ridding a bike that is "not quite" of the period, especially if the rider was out for a ride to see if they liked vinduro events. I know if I was doing the scrutineering, or if a scrutineer bought the case to me as the responcible officail /Clerk of Course, I would let them ride.
Remember, it is supposed to be about having a good time ridding on an enduro style course on older bikes, and the more bums on bike you can get the better it is for all. At least you won't be being roosted by some would be hotshot an a late model WR/CR/KTM 450.
CJ
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Yeah, I personally don't have a problem with follow on models. My only concern is that the moment you make it competitive, you'll get protests.
Take the 1986 IT200S - It's the same as the N except for the front disc brake. Probably not much better than a double leading shoe in the dry, but if it's wet/muddy.... Someone's bound to protest.
So if they're ouside of the classes - Class 4 (non-competitive)....
Just my thoughts anyway. ;D ;D
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Like everything else in the modern world,lets put rules and laws in place and really stuff it up - Remember its just for fun.
Next we will be debating whether we should be able to bring the kids and let them ride in the paddock.
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Nice work Tony. Only can we not mention protests again. Just because you have a competition doesn't mean every one wants to protest everything. I raced enduro's for a lot of years and apart from some at 4days i don't remember any. Same as VMX only seems to happen at the Nats and right now i can't imagine a Aust Vinduro champs....Would be good but.
Why do MX riders, who race in competitions with rules and have fun doing it think it would be a bad thing in vinduros?
OK if I was to run a competition vinduro these are the classes I would start with.
What do you think.
Class 0 Pre 88 100cc2s/150cc4s
Class 1A/ Pre '77 up to 200cc
Class 1B/ Pre '77 over 200cc
Class 2A/ Pre '80 up to 200cc
Class 2B/ Pre '80 over 200cc
Class 3B/ EVO up to 200cc
Class 3B/ EVO over 200cc
Class 4A/ Pre '88 up to 200cc
Class 4B/ Pre '88 over 200cc
Cheers
Noel
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Only can we not mention p#@$!$%* again.
Noel, happy to!
Class 0 Pre 88 100cc2s/150cc4s
Class 1A/ Pre '77 up to 200cc
Class 1B/ Pre '77 over 200cc
Class 2A/ Pre '80 up to 200cc
Class 2B/ Pre '80 over 200cc
Class 3B/ EVO up to 200cc
Class 3B/ EVO over 200cc
Class 4A/ Pre '88 up to 200cc
Class 4B/ Pre '88 over 200cc
I like those classes! My 76 IT400 doesn't have to race against pre '80 bikes!! ;D ;D
I like Class 0 too - I remember doing an enduro in '82 or '83 where Stephen Grant rode a big wheel RM80. I was a minute behind him, and he had that thing screaming! Right up till when he boiled it dry somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd section.... :'( :'(
;)
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OK if I was to run a competition vinduro these are the classes I would start with.
What do you think.
Class 0 Pre 88 100cc2s/150cc4s
Class 1A/ Pre '77 up to 200cc
Class 1B/ Pre '77 over 200cc
Class 2A/ Pre '80 up to 200cc
Class 2B/ Pre '80 over 200cc
Class 3B/ EVO up to 200cc
Class 3B/ EVO over 200cc
Class 4A/ Pre '88 up to 200cc
Class 4B/ Pre '88 over 200cc
Cheers
Noel
Yeh if it was competitive those classes seem pretty OK. And if it aint competitive then the limit would be pre 1988...which seems pretty reasonable and in line with current turn up of bikes. Hmmmm could be very workable. I also like class 0, gets a class going for those tiddlers sitting in sheds waiting for a FUN class too. :)
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Meh.
I'm really don't understand why people are so keen to get worked up over this topic - we're just going for a trail-ride with a bunch of other people on old bikes.
If it was pre-90, and those scary water-cooled, double disc DT and KDX200s turned up, would it be a problem? Really?
From what I've seen, the guys that seem to be most outspoken against the idea of post-84 bikes aren't the fast guys anyhow, so (presumably) its not even about trying to pretend that you're Phil Lovett or Geoff Ballard....
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We're not worried so much about the trailride (non-competitive) side of it - we're discussing classes for competitive Vintage Enduros.
Just like VMX has classes (and a MUCH earlier cut off than Vinduros), we're talking about what to do for competition, if it ever eventuates.
I don't think anyone would say that a YZ250A or DT1M should compete against an 89 YZ250W or 90 YZ250A(2). Same thing with enduros bikes. A DT1 shouldn't have to compete against a 'scary' DT200 or KDX200.
The cut off year effects the type of course you lay out as well. A DT1 would be stopped dead by some obstacles that a KDX200 wouldn't even notice.
When I was a kid, my Father was one of the organisers of what was considered the toughest enduro in SE QLD in the 1970's (Boonah). It was nothing to have a greater than 50% DNF rate. 7 or 8 years ago we went back and rode some of the same trails again, and couldn't believe how easy they were on modern bikes.
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Just sitting here reading all of these threads and what i can read into all this is ( not competitive ) im working on a few bikes 1986 1989 and would like to join in on some FUN but if this is what its about ill ride with my mates and watch the concept of VINDUROS falling on its face , dont forget that most of the people who buy older bikes just want to ENJOY them ,talk, drink with like minded people any-who hah thats the way i see it ......
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Scott since Vinduro has always gone under the Pre 85 banner, I find it strange that you are working on 86 to 89 models to ride in them, there is plenty of Pre 85 bikes for sale around the place, cheap to ;D ;)
Cheers Mick.
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Hi Mick, I purchased the 86/89 not noing anythjng about production dates and vinduro RULES , thinking that its almost 2010 and 1986 / 1989 is over 20yrs and that these bikes are dirtbikes and not showroom roadies I dont want to race in a pointscore competition but fix and ride with like minded people , Tm sure there are alot of repairers/riders that are put off by the serious comp format, I read somewhere that the IT boys had a weekend at Jugiong and had a ball , this day/weekend Ithink this approach is an ideal way to kick off a vinduro concept,maybe then sit down for a meal/beer and discuss different avenues that the vinduro track should go . I live in N.S.W and would like to hear from riders who would like to go to Binacrombe for a ride (1hr north of Goulburn) 45min loop thats not to hard and plenty of area for kids to ride ;D
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On my website I have some blokes that have Pre 80, Pre 85 & Pre 90 bikes and some have them regoed and some others plus me are going to get our bikes rec regoed and will be going on ride day-weekends next year,,that way we get to pick the tracks we want to ride on and there will be no entry costs,,,there is about 8 of us so far who are keen to do it and over time I hope this number will get bigger, just imagine the look on the young blokes faces on there mod bikes as a group of old 2 strokes come riding by ;D...
Cheers Mick.
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Hi Scott, I'm keen for a ride.
Although apparently Binacrombie is pretty lousy nowdays, and the riding park near Crookwell is a better choice.
GregACT is trying to get a Vinduro up and running at Fairbairn (ACT). Not sure about the time-frames.
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Depending on the date I hope to make it to Gregs Vinduro.
Cheers Mick.
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On my website I have some blokes that have Pre 80, Pre 85 & Pre 90 bikes and some have them regoed and some others plus me are going to get our bikes rec regoed and will be going on ride day-weekends next year,,that way we get to pick the tracks we want to ride on and there will be no entry costs,,,there is about 8 of us so far who are keen to do it and over time I hope this number will get bigger, just imagine the look on the young blokes faces on there mod bikes as a group of old 2 strokes come riding by ;D...
Cheers Mick.
I would be interested, but i have a dodgy YZ but its Rec Registerd. I would be happy to organise and lead a ride next year in the Area just south of Yea.
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Yeh it's very much still in the planning stages (which is why I haven't said too much ::) ) but I believe the ACT club is keen and I am hoping to get a Vinduro going at Fairbairn ACT in 2010 and maybe 2 if we get a good roll up to the first one...which I hope will be happening before the middle of the year.
There is still a lot to be discussed and a lot of work to do to the track (and possible tracks) and paper work no doubt. IF we can attract riders from NSW, VIC and ACT and even further afield (maybe) then this will certainly be a goer and will get a regular Vinduro happening that will be within a few hours drive for a lot of people. :)
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The vinduro ride in the ACT sounds like fun , can you post on here when things get closer , make sure theres some long fire trail sections , Id like to let the 500 2 smoker have its head, proberbly fall off going slow ,so a bit of speed into the equation want hurt (much) Is this a comp or social , do we need rego?
Hi Nathan, Binacrombies cut up a bit but last time I rode you could still have some fun, Crookwell doesnt ring a bell but Lochmarie is down the road from B/c 15 minutes and no need for rego at either , unless you head out to the forest/national park.
If theres a Victorian ride in the months of May/June I would be interested if you need a place in a trailer and a lift let me know Nathan.....
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Yes will certainly be posting up on a few sites when it is confirmed and I hope we have a date set early in 2010 to give all those interested a chance to attend. I am sure it will be a social rec ride (no rego) under club direction and I hope to make the track as long as possible. At the moment the rec/enduro track is a bit limited so I am hoping to get access to other area(s) but we shall see. It may be that we will need to build it as we go depending on the interest generated. In future years with a longer track and sponsors i am sure it would be a great event!! ;)
But small steps right now in just trying to get something happening for the Vinduro circuit. ;D
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I'm interested Greg. Please let us know as soon as you can when you have a date.
Don't tell him, I'm sure I could stay at Nathan's place............. :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Tony, you know you're always welcome. With a bit of warning, I could probably even find a bike for you to ride.
Be good to start repaying some of the many favours I owe you (and I know you're not the kind of bloke to count favours).
:)
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We've just finished unpacking from a Xmas/New year camping trip at a fantastic park about 2.5 hrs south of Brisbane. Got wet and then flooded in, but had a ball riding some new ground. Taught the daughter to ride her TTR125 and the son rode the XR200 until the shifter shared off. I had to borrow the nephews TS200 after my DR350 wouldn't shift gears after a rebuild(??)
Anyway, the park is called EMU CREEK and is inland from Casino on the Tenterfied rd and has great camping, fantastic aray of tracks (MX and enduro) with easy loops and then some diabolical rock climbs and descents for the braver types. It's a perfect spot for a two day vinduro and would e the spot to get some coverage for this new sport.
Are there many vinduro types that could make it to the location for such an event??
Check it out at emu creek .com(google)
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Gee sounds like a good place with 3 mx tracks to ride on as well. Too bad the council has made them close temporarily (hopefully). I would go the 2.5 hours and give it a go.
http://www.emucreek.com/ (http://www.emucreek.com/)
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That's news to me so I will follow it up today.
Yes it is well worth the drive.
We had some fun getting out over the floodway to the camp ground and I suspect he has to apply to the council to fix it.
We had to put Debbies Swift onto Popeyes bike trailer and drag it out with Blairs Patrol.
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theres also another park pretty much next to emu creek its called rover park its pretty good also 2 mx tracks kids tracks good camping cabins on site vans free firewood and about half the price of emu creek some pretty good hill climbs.cost $90 for 2 days plus camping for 6 people 4 bikes and 1 quad would have cost us twice that at emu creek and my 9 year old son couldnt ride his quad at emu creek.check them out rover park.com.au.cheers gary
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Hi, l am looking to buy a vinduro bike, l was looking at a Xr 250 86 model or 87 model to me they are very similiar to the 85 and 84 models, how fare can one go with the XR before they are not eligible. Because l don`t want to waste my money on purchasing a bike that can`t be run, It would have saved a lot of problem if they just made the cut of dates pre 90.
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Hey SR, the 84-85 XR's share very little with the 86 onwards model so don't go thinking that they are flow-on models. An XR RE (84) is as eligible as it gets. Not a bad jigger but the pin was pulled on the reliability fuse many years ago on this particular model. How about we just make the cutoff pre-2010? Sheesh, this has been done to death. There's lots of great bikes available for the era. :D
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Well try and find one of these great bikes of that era, l would say they are buggered or coupled up in sheds locked away, and l know the rules are done to death. Its very hard to fine a bike that we are looking for, and its not just me, They are not jumping out of show room floors at you when you drive past bike shops.
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What are you looking for and what sort of budget have you got?
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What have you got available and in running condition ready to ride at the next vinduro.
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You didn't answer the questions but I can help with a TT250H NOW.
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Sorry canam 370, I am very european minded, but l do like XR Honda. sorry l gave the tt some consideration and the verdit was no.
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Hey SR, the 84-85 XR's share very little with the 86 onwards model so don't go thinking that they are flow-on models. An XR RE (84) is as eligible as it gets. Not a bad jigger but the pin was pulled on the reliability fuse many years ago on this particular model. How about we just make the cutoff pre-2010? Sheesh, this has been done to death. There's lots of great bikes available for the era. :D
I could not agree with you more Canam, I dont see Pre 85 cut off as anything else but Pre 85 bikes, and wonder how others think it could possible mean 86-87 bikes etc ??
Cheers Mick.
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http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automotive/Motorbikes-ATVs/Search?Sections=X1E&Dynamic_bodystyle=&MakeModel1_Make=&MakeModel1_Model=&QueryTerm=1983&PriceMin=&PriceMax=&OmnSearchType=DepartmentFinder&intref=marcon190&Submit=Search&AdvancedSearchLocation=&State=
http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automotive/Motorbikes-ATVs/Search?Sections=X1E&Dynamic_bodystyle=&MakeModel1_Make=&MakeModel1_Model=&QueryTerm=1984&PriceMin=&PriceMax=&OmnSearchType=DepartmentFinder&intref=marcon190&Submit=Search&AdvancedSearchLocation=&State=
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1983-HONDA-XL185s-XL185-TRAIL-BIKE-MOTORBIKE-/180686365740?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item2a11bf242c#ht_1238wt_877
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KTM-125-GS-GS125-125GS-1984-Parts-Restore-Bike-Project-/330480890726?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf2323366
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1981-HONDA-XR500R-XR500-VMX-TRAIL-MOTORBIKE-OLD-THUMPER-/180685357871?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item2a11afc32f#ht_932wt_877
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Hey SR u can't go past a XL250sa twin shock beast.
There is nothing more satisfying than building up yr own motor rather than buying a possible handgranade.
I have 2 project bikes available if yr interested both complete but "PROJECTS"
1980 XL250sa very original ( motor is out and awaiting rebuild ) $600
1982 XR250RC motor is in but is locked $700
If yr interested ;)
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Always a lot of PE's on ebay. A lot of 82 175 full floaters have come up for grabs.
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Hey SR u can't go past a XL250sa twin shock beast.
Extremely underated great handling bike right there, borrowed a dead stocker once for a weekend ride and downhill on the firebreaks (back of Marysville) no one could touch me, bit sad uphill of course.