You can't fabricate anything!

[Nathan S]

I think that the billet chassis is probably a pretty good (albeit horrifically expensive) way to build a decent handling car under a Cobra body.

I do appreciate the statements about a proper monocoque or a space-frame, but both would be badly compromised in an open-top car with opening doors. I suspect that the billet chassis is probably better than either, in this circumstance.

I'm not so sure about the 'soul' thing either. The pursuit of technical excellence requires a dedication and a passion that very, very few of us can muster. CAD and Solidworks make things easier, but they also raise the bar, and demand a lot more from the operator. The countles hours spent modelling the suspension alone, should not be devalued by the high quality of the finished product.
On an even more basic level, to actually finish the car to such a high standard shows a rare and uncommon patience - one that needs passion to sustain it.

Regardless, the constructors clearly wished to display their technical expertise, and they've clearly had a win on that one.

[GMC]

Just bought another car yesterday that has "soul".

Really,? I never considered a Benz as much of a soul car

[mx250]

Call it 'soul', 'style', 'character' or whatever you like. Some cars have a certain something that you can't put your finger on.

Call it 'perverse pleasure'; a bit like beating your head up against a brick wall - you know why you're doing it but everyone else is perplexed .

Hey, that sounds just like VMX   .   

[TT]

Really,? I never considered a Benz as much of a soul car

I think that deserves an articulate, controlled response.........................





Get nicked, Geoff!     



Yeah, well maybe 'soul' isn't a good description for my cars.
'Character' is probably more accurate............................. 

[Lozza]

Jeff, for you a classic URBAN MYTH . If it were an OSSA GP Phantom would it have drawn the same comments?
Unless you have a black belt in Solidworks/MasterCam I wouldn't pass judgement on the billet chassis . Programes like SolidWorks are P
part of the reason modern compnents are just so good these days. CNC work like that is cheap as these days(just email files to China) it looked like it was mostly simple 2D stuff which can even be done on a CNC router that makes kitchen cupboards.Compared to a space frame which would have to have 1 or more jigs made, tubes CNC 'fish-mouthed' and /or bent then finaly welded the billet option is looking better and better.
On the question if it's got soul, essence or such I reckon that would rapidly disappear once you nailed the throttle.

[vmx42]

Come on Lozza,
You can't deny a modern man his tools of trade - urban myths  and gross generalisations  are integral parts of internet forum participation.
I will try to do better next time [but I will probably fail  ]!!
VMX42

[GMC]

I suppose I shouldn't be too judgemental Tony, seeing as how I drive a bland white bench seat Commodore ute that's only bit of character comes from the roadkill dent

Unless you have a black belt in Solidworks/MasterCam I wouldn't pass judgement on the billet chassis .

Theirs no doubting their programming skills or the strength of the billet chassis, but their are many different attributes of a chassis / frame to consider.

Many structures are still bolted or riveted together so as to give them the capability of flex without fatigue.
Aeroplane wings spring to mind. This firm could probably mill up a billet wing but I doubt it would be successful.
A truck chassis needs to flex with its load, too stiff & it would crack.
Many motorbike & pushbike frames are considered to be flops if they are built too stiff
Then theirs the old steam engines which have many tubes running through the boiler. These tubes are peened into place rather than welded as even with today’s welding techniques the welds would still fail as they can’t cope with the expansion & contraction.

The body work impresses me no end, now theirs a black art for you, but just because something is machined from billet doesn’t mean it’s the best solution.
It is definitely a good show case for their skills but there are many companies around the world with this capability that don’t attract customers with too much money

[firko]

I repeat...

Methinks too many people confuse over engineering with good engineering.

[mx250]

I thinks you guys have the 'bull by the tail' -  the whole CNC chassis is all about looks not function (although I'm enjoying your interesting observations/informed comments).

And it looks incredible. I would buy it for looks alone and leave the car parked boot and bonnet up so rubbernecking passerbys could see the detail .

[vmx42]

Hey Graeme,
Don't get me wrong, I agree it looks S&%T Hot, no doubt. If the owner is happy then all is good, but I still have doubts about the method of construction and the rationale behind it.

As I said it is a great advertisment to show that it 'can be done', I just don't think you will see the major race teams embrace it as a viable construction method - too complicated [for complications sake], too slow [to build], too expensive, and heaven forbid that you ever had the misfortune to bent it.

Viewed in isolation it is a wonderful creation but I suppose the designs that float my boat are more in the John Britten style. Truly unique interpretations on the vehicle form, done with creativity, resourcefulness and ingenuity and not simply the product of a mega-budget. Very much the less is more philosophy [and isn't that just the aussie/NZ way].

For example the disproportionate number of Aussies/NZers that work in the major race teams around the globe where their ingenuity and creativity is highly valued and recognised as being fairly unique and wonderful trait.

I am happy to celebrate the many and varied differences in approach - as there are many ways to 'skin a cat'. - its just that this particular method would be a tediously slow, painful and expensive way [and I suspect John Britten would be turning in his grave].
VMX42

P.S. I have spent my life holding onto the bulls tail - nothing new there     

[mx250]

For example the disproportionate number of Aussies/NZers that work in the major race teams around the globe where their ingenuity and creativity is highly valued and recognised as being fairly unique and wonderful trait.

I can't vouch for the veracity of the statement, but I was told with great certainty and authority that on a per capita bases Australia has seven times more Patent holders than any other nations. Sounds a mighty big call - I should check it out somehow. Sounds good anyway (in a very jingoistic way ).

(The guy that told had worked in the medical/dental/electronics industry and was drawing from his experience in that field. He made the conclusion that the Pommies 'shot themselves in the foot' when they exported the best and brightest and those with the most initiative, when they sent the convicts. Having a convict forebearer who did 14 years and ended up with 2000 acres, 4000 sheep at Yass and a 20yo (20 years his junior) Irish bride (and 6 children in 10 years - after the drought come the refreshing rains ). I would tend to agree with him .) Not a bad trade off for an underdog peasant from cold wet dreary old Nottingham. 

[TooFastTim]

The skies are going to open up and I'll be sucked into a black hole vortex for this but........I agree with Jeff. I don't deny everything I wrote in my previous email about the coolness of the Ellison Cobra but Jeffs 'lack of soul' observation got me thinking. I'm one of those petrol head tragics who see personality (or soul to you believers) in otherwise inanimate vehicles. More often than not a built up vehicle whether it be bike, car, boat or skateboard will reflect a lot of the builders personality. The Ellison Cobra is, to my way of thinking too perfect, too precise in it's execution. It's a shrine to billet CNC and the owners ability to spend money. To me the hot rod spirit that inspired Carrol Shelbys original Cobra by sticking a red hot 289 into a British AC that previously housed a breathless Bristol engine is the very essesence of being a car guy. That's why those TV hot rod shows where Boyd Coddington, Chip Foose et al throw shelves full of warehouse bought new parts at some old rust bucket leave me cold. The ingenuity that emerges from building to a strict budget is what turns me on. Buying a ready made chassis and bolting on more ready made bling accessories (al la West Coast Choppers) creates a perfect end result that sadly lacks any of the builders personality. My mates brothers Cobra kit car with it's little cast iron 289 and period wrecking yard procured parts such as a Jag rear end and Mitsubishi L300 front suspension is more to my liking.

One thing I tend to disagree with Jeff on is his tongue in cheek observation of how Ellisons Cobra will be recieved by Hot Rodders at the Drive In restaurant. I think that they'd go apeshit over it. Despite the Cobras mega dollar lack of soul, it's still a very cool and beautifully executed piece of engineering that any guy who's ever handled a Sidchrome couldn't help to appreciate.

That was, sniff, simply beautiful...

And that, ladies and gents, is why I admire artisans.

[vmx42]

Good to know you are attached to your emotions Tim. Sniff…

[Lozza]

Yes Jeff I love snopes

[Nathan S]

I repeat...

Methinks too many people confuse over engineering with good engineering.

How do you build a better race/performance car into a Cobra body than they have?
I can see ways to do it cheaper, simpler and more easily.
But not better.