Where have all the old boys gone

[pokey]

a few recurrent themes  have made themselves obvious in this   and other topics .


 1: VMX racers like the age groupings  and its that which attracted many back into the sport. be a bit silly to  knock that on the head.

2: Costs of Licencing  and  travel does get a bit much  for the  average joe. The cheese and kisses  can raise an eyebrow at times to the  seemingly  large amount of funds that they  believe could be spent else wheres.

3: The vast distances of the  fine land  to persue the events  can also take its toll . Who can  talk the boss into having a POETS day  and down tools whenever an event is on ? not  everyone i would wager.


Perhaps there is no answer to the quandry and   choosing  the better of two evils  is the only way but I do know that  beaurocratic bullshit and petty squabbles  will see more riders say stuff it  Most riders want to ride and enjoy the sport . Not racing for sheep stations guys so who cares if  it seemingly  lessens the importance of a national Title in the sub categories? There is still THE National Title race  to take care of that.It still gets the guys and the bikes on the track and after all isnt that the main aim?

 Make it easier to attend make guys want to attend  and cut the bullshit.

[Rosco400]

Firko, Ajay and oldschool are ALL right. The only way to fix the problem is for all of us to hassle, annoy and pester our old mates to turn up and the rest will look after itself. The cause of the whole situation is the lack of entries. At Wagga the other week we had an absolute blast with 70 odd riders, if we doubled that we would have had perfection.

Back to page six, this still seems the only logical answer. Once the numbers are up, age categories will exist and there will be no problem, if there is no clash of dates for VDT and VMX nats(which should be sorted now before all clubs in each state issue 2008 calender) there is no problem and limits the excuses of not being able to attend, a couple of weeks either side of a club round allows riders/spectators/drinking mates to get organised for most important events on the calender. The drinking and benchracing and social riding is the starting point to coax mates and once they realise what they enjoyed the most, the rest is history.

If work family or costs of attending are a problem, so be it and individuals should not be thought of any less and shouldnt cop flak/crap off there mates, just encouragement to attend when they can, we dont know what goes on in a persons personal life so ill judgement should not be made. Giving someone there own space will allow them the opportunity to attend when the timings right.

Now in saying that, and only being in nsw scene last couple of years, i dont know many or any of the old blokes so I encourage everyone else i know/meet who has an old bike in the shed, probably got 5 - 6 mates joined or joining this year in nsw and still working on a few more and there in the forties age bracket and dont care who there riding against,they dont have bad attitudes and as long as they get around at there own pace and finish in one piece. now that they are getting into it more, shouldnt take to much coaxing to get few interested in the bigger events. Hunter club is introducing dirt track for vintage and mates are talking already about going and having a play there, Canberra has built DT and sure loks like NSW scene will be on the improve as these are all positive steps. Young guys arent a problem because they leave us for dead anyway which give plenty of track room to do our own thing. if we finish in front of a younger rider, thats just a bonus

[firko]

This is a little off topic but it makes interesting reading and shows that we aren't the only vintage area with problems.
This is a well researched piece written by our mate Seige (the t shirt guy) in Seattle.
 http://www.siegecraftnw.com/whitepass2.htm

[vmx42]

OK we have waxed lyrical about the 'hows and whys' of getting the old guys back into the sport [in one way or another] but we seem have forgotten about how to encourage and motivate the hard working clubs.

Most of us seem to agree that a smaller number of big events is better than a hodge podge of smaller less exciting events so here is a chance to put up.

Uncle Donnie has just announced in the Competition Forum that the Coff Classic Dirt Track will be held next year on 15/16 March so how about getting in early with your entries and show the club that the riders can get their act together and support the club. Think of Donnies hair line - get in early and let the poor guy relax a bit. There is nothing worse than promoting an event and being unsure of the turnout.

Get to it. Sounds like a great event, I enjoyed the Motocross Nationals so much I intend to check out the Dirt Track myself. Come on guys.
VMX42

[lukeb1961]

interesting article.
http://www.mccookracing.com/articles/rickDoughty_cleanSheet.htm

[090]

Great article. Hope everyone takes the time to read it. He hits the nail on the head with his way of thinking. Commonsence i say.

[DJRacing]

Yeah Rick has it pretty close to what old dirtbike racing is about. Its a good read. I dont think it would work here in NZ(population isnt big enough) but maybe in Aust, the bare bones of the structure is a great place to start. Once again it looks like red tape has wrapped itself around the wheels of motion, and hindered the progress of a sport. Whether I agree with him or disagree with him on what determines a vintage or not is immaterial, that isnt the question in this thread. But moreso the whole concept of how vintage can keep its members and also move with the times. The idea of self scrutinising is great(if you cheat, who are you cheating but yourself,so why do it?). Wouldnt you be condemning yourself to be hated by your peers? If there are 100 bikes/riders gear to scrutinise and say at even 2mins a bike/rider that is 3.5 hours of lost riding time. Lets face it, why do we go to meeting, to ride, so if the rules are simple and clear there shouldnt be a problem. The idea of 'less is more' for championship events is so true, not everyone has the time or money to travel to every event that is going, but to make only a small number of events throughtout the year big nationals/championships people will want to go to them. Thats why your 'classic dirt' is such a big event, (there is only one), and its not because of the non competitive riding as maybe suggested. Yes, maybe a small part of it can be attributed to that but on a whole its the thought that you might miss out on something big that gets everyone there(and of course its a great event) hence you get the snowball effect of everyone turning up and having a fanastic time(why do you think I want to come over) whether I have a bike to ride or not. Major meetings need to be spread throughout the year so competitors have the chance to sweet talk the wife, save the money or get the time off work to get to them. But hey all this has been said in this thread already, so its now up to you guys as 'old dirtbike riders' to do something about it. As Rick says, a clean sheet of paper could be what you are looking for. Yes you may have a good/bad system in place now, but is your system helping you or not? Vintage Motocross as the saying goes is, "like minded blokes and there bikes", will the way I read this whole thread is, that there are alot of like minded blokes but with there hands tied by an authority that isnt working for them. Everytime your governing body makes a rule change it takes a lawyer to read it, an accountant to finance it and a 'greenie' to agree to it. You guys need to have the control of your own sport and tell your governing body that this is how Vintage Motocross will be run rather than some profiteering office worker deciding your fate. Whether VMX in Aust. becomes an off-shoot of MA or its own governing body is I believe what alot of you guys are saying without actually saying it. Shoot me down if you want, but before you do, please re-read this whole thread and ask yourself what the problems and answers are. Is it the bikes? Is it the riders? Is it the tracks? Is it the commitees? Is it the clubs? Is it MA? or Is it the system that you have to abide by? Answer each one on its own merit and see what you come up with? Forget all the bullshit and excuses why people have stopped riding/coming to events and start looking at the reasons that they would want to ride/come to events. Is this the crossroads that Aust.VMX is standing at, or is it a detour back to the same problems and squabbles that seem to divide what should be the best sport in the world?

[Hoony]

i  agree with the principle of VMX being self governing except for the public liability issue over here in Oz, i have never been a fan of MA (or the ACU it replaced) as think it is business orientated instead of for the riders and the sport in general, now that is fine to run it like a business for mainstream MX  but not for our cottage industry. someone in this thread mentioned about the costs of permits for VMX being the same as Mainstream MX and the licence issue could be addressed as well ( do you think a one day licence should really cost $50 to race? when your entry fee to meeting costs $40- $45 ) these issues need to be sorted at MA level as i believe a state/club/local VMX meet ( i am not referring to any nationals here, separate issue as we all know) should be kept low cost and the money fed back into the organising club/register/committee and not go to MA (fork em),  for profiteering off local small time meetings they can rip into the private promoters if they want but ease up on the clubs at low level, i realize this will need an MA restructure of somekind and the wheels are slow to move.

[colmoody]

 Clearly I have offended Doc and for that I apologise.

Looking at it purley from an age prospective hands up all those say between 35 and 45 years whom have recently puchased the latest
and greatest 450 or 250 four stroke MXer and gone off racing motorcross, supercross or Dirt Track. Ok now hands up all those say between the ages of 45 and 55 years whom have done the same, ok what about 60 to 70 years. You getting my drift here.

I am new to this vmx/dt caper and clearly there are a lot more wiser folk than me whom have been involved a lot longer than myself
but from the circles I travel in the attractions of competing in vmx/classic dirt track meetings is catching up with and COMPETING with
like minded souls of similar vintage on similar vintage MXers from back whenever. (pre 75 preferably)

Having held  the positions of treasurer/president/secrtary in a motorcyle club that is heavily involved in the promotion of Dirt Track
Racing in NSW I understand completly the enormous effort involved by the promoting club in putting any sort of race meeting on and
whilst no longer in either of the above capacity's I have enormous respect for those clubs and individuals involved. They are indeed worthy of our co operation and support.

Without wanting to sound like its all about me, me and me for a whole lot of reasons three big Dirt Track Meetings per year would be
all I could do. Did the Coffs Classic Dirt Track in March (fantastic) Aussie Vintage Dirt Track Titles in October (fantastic). Will add the Jack Hogg Classic to those two for next year and that'll do me. Cant wait. Now if you'll just excuse me while i go and put my plastic pants on.

[Nathan S]

Looking at it purley from an age prospective hands up all those say between 35 and 45 years whom have recently puchased the latest
and greatest 450 or 250 four stroke MXer and gone off racing motorcross, supercross or Dirt Track. Ok now hands up all those say between the ages of 45 and 55 years whom have done the same, ok what about 60 to 70 years. You getting my drift here.

If you look at the over 35s grid at an ACTMCC club day, or an Amcross round, then I'd say that plenty of 35~50 year olds have gone and bought new bikes to race. I assume that most clubs are similar.
These were the guys that VMX picked up in the early days of VMX - now they're buying new bikes to race.

Similarly, I don't know of any 50+ guys to first get involved in VMX in the time I've been actively involved.

[colmoody]

All power to those guys Nathan. Those meetings you mention are they open meetings with full grids of A B and C graders.

[Nathan S]

Amcross are opens for non-pros, but ACTMCC events are just club days. I wouldn't say that they have full grids, but many go close and definitely healthy fields of capacity classes (no grades that I know of).

[colmoody]

Nathan I have just re read your post. That they are lining up to compete in an age based class is exactly my point. And from a previous post of yours, I dont think anyone is having a go at the 17 year olds but do you know anyone that really gets any joy out of blowing someone off two or three times there age.

[Graeme M]

Nathan is right in one respect, from what I can see at local club days and things like organised trailrides the older guys are queuing to buy new bikes. I sold my kids KLX on the weekend to a guy in his late 40s who used to race speedway, and he's wanting to buy a second hand 05/06 YZ250 and get into Amcross and some trailrides.

But the other point is valid too, many of us get into vintage because it's a different sort of scene and I think to most of us the racing is either equal to or secondary to the fun/social/reminiscing aspect. Unlike Amcross and clubdays tho, VMX also seems to appeal to a much broader cross section of people, and I guess the trick is in attracting people from such a spectrum - restorers, play riders, guys who've never raced before, club racers and serious racers. Tricky.

On the matter of age classes, here's a picture of the program for the 96 Nats at Barrabool, sent to me by Tim754. Gives you an idea of how it all used to hang together 12 years ago...

[Nathan S]

Nathan I have just re read your post. That they are lining up to compete in an age based class is exactly my point. And from a previous post of yours, I dont think anyone is having a go at the 17 year olds but do you know anyone that really gets any joy out of blowing someone off two or three times there age.

A race is a race. I don't care if I'm "banging bars" with someone significantly younger (like Tom), a bit older (like Lozza), a heap older (like Dennis), or double my age (like Graeme). If they ride fair and we're racing, then its fun - and I don't care whether we're racing for 1st place or second last. Why would that attitude be any different for a 16 year old, a 45 year old or a 65 year old?
My first ever VMX race (and also my first ever race), I ended up circulating with a bloke who musta been literally twice my age. In a 'normal' situation, we'd probably be a bit limited in off-track conversation, but because we'd been racing, it was like we'd been mates for years. This has been repeated many times over in my short VMX 'career', and is one of the main things that cemented my passion for racing old bikes.

From what I've seen, modern MX "needs" an 'old bloke' class much, much more than VMX does. But seeing as the 'old blokes' seem to think that an age-specific class is important to them, then I wouldn't dream of objecting...

I never really thought that was any amnimosity toward the youngsters, but some of the comments made about the young guys could easily be mis-understood as being quite negative.