Aussie titles. Protest. pre -/78 125's

[motomaniac]

Why have you called the GCR's my GCR's? Because I quoted them?

No, because you keep putting the word "our" in your description of the GCRs, which led me to believe that you meant something other than the National GCRs.

I copied and pasted my original post .I said "our" because I was replying to TMBILL from NZ

[Kane Mcguire]

firko i agree and i quote you. " it is up to us to make sure our bikes are legal"
The protest was upheld against my rm and i am in the process of getting it right for the qld titles coming up. This discussion is good because i am finding out and learning a lot of the differences between the b and c model rm's. thanks.

[Nathan S]

The YZg's etc are relevant as those are the bike that RM125 C 's must compete against if they are not a first generation long travelbike."

Same argument applies for 1978 YZ-Es, particularly the 125s. The changes to the YZ125D to create the YZ125E are similar to the changes between an RM125B to C: Alloy swing arm, minor frame mods, and a different barrel (and a few other detail differences, but nothing you'd write home about).

This is not a valid argument to allow the E model bikes into pre-78 - the changes might not look like a lot on paper, but they do make a significant difference to the bike (I'm considerably faster on my crappy E than on either of my much-better Ds). If RM125Cs are proven to be acceptable pre-78 race bikes, then I'll prove that YZ125Es are too - and we'll have made the whole category a complete joke...

It pays to remember that the era categories are strictly era based, not based on a set of technical specs (like Evo) despite what the pre-78 preamble says.

Yes, the 1978 models are generally badly outclassed as Evo bikes (erm, don't tell Dean Burt that ), but that's just the way that the cookie crumbles.

[TM BILL]

Just a thought  the 1975 TM sunburst models are not considered flow on models in pre 75 so they are in pre 78 , and probably the worst bike for the pre 78 class.

The point im making is that the 75 TMs are way closer in spec to their 1974 brothers than the 77 RMs are to the 78 RMs

Also as a worst bike in class situation the 75 TMs are a shit load less competitive in pre 78 than the 78 model RMs in EVO

In era racing there will always be a worst bike for the class but i think that the bike and class balance in your Australian rules is pretty good and as long as competitors stay within these rules then all will be well.

[motomaniac]

Just a thought  the 1975 TM sunburst models are not considered flow on models in pre 75 so they are in pre 78 , and probably the worst bike for the pre 78 class.

The point im making is that the 75 TMs are way closer in spec to their 1974 brothers than the 77 RMs are to the 78 RMs

Also as a worst bike in class situation the 75 TMs are a shit load less competitive in pre 78 than the 78 model RMs in EVO

In era racing there will always be a worst bike for the class but i think that the bike and class balance in your Australian rules is pretty good and as long as competitors stay within these rules then all will be well.

TM So does this mean that a 75 TM with 7 and 4 in suspension has to race against 9" travel bikes.Im not up with  TM'S. I remember the first RM m's and s's .I would even call the RM125 75 theworst in the class , with cr250m1's anda few others.
Of course there will always be a worst bike in class I agree but a pre long tarvel bike shouldn t be in with long travel models.

As I said in the other topic that is now locked Im not sure about this flow on model rule but since then I have been considering Nathan S 's #33 reply to that topic.

Either way a guy who gets done for slightly different triple clamps and now it seems that the other two bikes are B's as well with floating brakes.
As you said earlier TM you have seen these bikes around over the years and why wasn't something pointed out.
I dont think that the guy from down here thought well I'll drive to QLD and back,take week and a half off ,pay for me and the missus 's accom. my entry fees etc and see if I can trick them in the pre78  class.
For myself, I am as tall as Mike Bell (remember him ) and I change all my triple clamps from rubber sweep back style to solid directly over the fork style.Thats my prefered set up.I cant ride my YZ's with stock setup.I wonder if thats going to cause a protest.
Whatever. How do you think the kiwis wil go in MXdN?

[AjayVMX]

I used to own a 1975 TM125 and my understanding was that this was one of the models that was classified to have "not changed" from the 1974 model and had been specifically allowed to compete in pre-74 competition.  As you say, the 1975 TM was completely outclassed by even the first RM125, which was realeased sometime in late 1975.

I looked at the GCR's and there is no mention of the "M" model (which I think is the 1975) in the list, although there is mention of an "R" model, which is after the K (1973) and L (1974) models.  Maybe that's a misprint?

Firko would know the answer to this one, maybe he can chime in here... 

[motomaniac]

I used to own a 1975 TM125 and my understanding was that this was one of the models that was classified to have "not changed" from the 1974 model and had been specifically allowed to compete in pre-74 competition.  As you say, the 1975 TM was completely outclassed by even the first RM125, which was realeased sometime in late 1975.

I looked at the GCR's and there is no mention of the "M" model (which I think is the 1975) in the list, although there is mention of an "R" model, which is after the K (1973) and L (1974) models.  Maybe that's a misprint?

Firko would know the answer to this one, maybe he can chime in here... 

Well so it should be. How could a 75 Honda get the okay but not the TM Suzi?
An M model RM and the later S version is long travel so it wouldn't be mentioned in pre 75.You'd think.

[Lozza]

The answer is a log book. The concept is very simple, you have a a standard bike you log book it as a standard bike.You have modified the bike you PROVE the modifications are within in the period.Then you mail you application away and someone opens your envelope with reads it and makes a decision on the evidence YOU provide.Just because you got a modified bike through doesn't mean mine will sail through, it's all down to the evidence you provide.This works very well in road racing and has basicaly stopped all this carry on dead in it's tracks. Simple innit

[AjayVMX]

Well so it should be. How could a 75 Honda get the okay but not the TM Suzi?
An M model RM and the later S version is long travel so it wouldn't be mentioned in pre 75.You'd think.

No, only the TM models are mentioned in the pre-75 eligibility table.

[Nathan S]

TM So does this mean that a 75 TM with 7 and 4 in suspension has to race against 9" travel bikes.Im not up with  TM'S.

If you're talking about '75 TM250s, then yep - they're only allowed to race with the pre-78 bikes, as they are too different to the 74 TM250s to be eligible for pre-75 racing.
And yes, they do suck as a pre-78 bike, just as they sucked in 1975 against the European bikes and the YZ-Bs and MX-Bs, etc.

Presumably, TM Bill was talking about the 250s, because I'm pretty sure that the 75 TM125 is an acceptable carry-over model.


Beware the spin about the two RM125s at the Nationals fully floating rear brakes, motomaniac. Several peple who are very knowledgable about Suzukis saw the bikes and commented to me that they were actually complete C model bikes with B tanks (as I said in my original post) - and these were not people involved with the protest, or even riding in the class at Conondale.
My Suzuki knowledge is very limited, but I was careful to make sure I was confident that my facts were correct before I started the (other) thread.

[cyclegod]

The only major component changed on a 1975 TM125M was the swingarm which had saddle style shock mounts and more bracing. Changing to a 1974 swingarm makes them indistinguishable from 1974 model (except tank graphics) which is why they pass inspection at club level without much drama.

[motomaniac]

The answer is a log book. The concept is very simple, you have a a standard bike you log book it as a standard bike.You have modified the bike you PROVE the modifications are within in the period.Then you mail you application away and someone opens your envelope with reads it and makes a decision on the evidence YOU provide.Just because you got a modified bike through doesn't mean mine will sail through, it's all down to the evidence you provide.This works very well in road racing and has basicaly stopped all this carry on dead in it's tracks. Simple innit

Great post ,sound too simple.I don't know if our scene is ready for something like that though, with protapers, PDvalves, shocks with external damp adjusters , alum swingarms that were never an aftermarket item etc etc there would be alot of bikes left at home.

[suzuki43]

Yawn yawn its been fascinating reading guys, but like Suzuki footpegs its becoming a snore fest....

[Nathan S]

Are you reading the rules motomaniac, or just on a high horse?

Externally adjustable shocks, PD valves, fat bars etc are all currently legal.
Fair enough it you don't want them to be legal, but that would be changing the rules, which is a whole 'nother ball game.

I agree with you on the swing arms, FWIW.

One of the reasons these discussion go nowhere, is because far too many people get confused by what the rules are, with what they think the rules should be.

[Graeme M]

All good reading, but would it be too hard just to go with the rules? Sure they aren't always the clearest but all this talk about TM250s being non-competitive or whatever is a load of crap. So what? That's the rules. If you aren't happy, propose an amendment. What we have is what we have and we can all live within it. If you HAVE to race a 78 YZ125 in Evo, then accept it'll get done like a dinner and go have fun. If you want to win, buy an 81.

Talking (or more accuratley whinging) about ProTaper bars, decent shocks and so on is a red herring and getting old. They are LEGAL. End of story.

But if you have a bike that is even a teensy bit illegal BY THE RULES, then you just might have to cop it on the chin one day.