Aussie titles. Protest. pre -/78 125's

[firko]

Sorry for the "decieve part" that's going a bit far.... However I'm big enough to apologise for my strong language. I do however stick to my main point that there are no excuses for ilegal bikes, even if it was a mistake on your behalf. If you've had your bike 5 years I'd have thought you'd have worked out what you have by now. As the saying goes, ignorance isn't an excuse. My main problem is the number of "experts" coming in with their own take on it. That's why I spoke to the steward before I posted.

[090]

There are alot more eyes on this forum than you realise and people know people and what they have done. Seems that olddirtbikes is one of the bikes in question, being a C model rm125 with a B tank on it. So how do you explain this bike Allan?

'spose i should have asked this differently rather than say it straight out, but i will leave it as is and await your reply first so as not to be changing things and the thread not making sense.

[Kane Mcguire]

no prob firko. yeh our legal system states that ignorance is no excuse.

it has never tweaked to look if my bike is a c until this protest.
i know that the a,b,c model rm has a large interchangeability of parts but i have always bought b parts and have never had anything that has not fit.

i still have no prob with the protester or any of this.
i believe this discussion is healthy for the sport.

this was my first aust titles in anything. i reckon if you thought you were in with a chance to get a placing or win, you would have to be a dickhead to turn up with a bike that you knew was illegal.  

firko how about some more articles in vmx like the one where "the red mist came over you" when you warmed up a mates new ts400 before he rode it. And you dropped it! i still read it every month and piss myself laughing!

[LWC82PE]

The Nats are a serious thing, its not just a club day. If you were a rider who thought that you would be at the pointy end of the field and a contender for a top 3 placing, this should make it even more important that you had previously 100% double and triple checked what model bike you actually had before entering in class, and not just base your thought on what model you own by what the guy you bought it off said it was or what others said it was by just looking at a photo of it? I think the first step in identifying what model you own would be to contact a dealer and to ID the bike by engine/frame number or find a reliable source with engine/frame numbers of the particular model you own. Well thats what i would do if i wanted to be 100% sure my bike was the right year for what ever class and then i know what parts are right for that year model and whats not and then i would never get my self in the situation of being protested against for having a bike that is a 78 model when i thought it was a 77 for example.
And for the ones who purposely cheat and try to disguise a bike as something its not, well as Firko says, theres no excuse for cheating.

This has gotta be a big wake up call for everyone, or at least the people who took things too casually or purposely out to bend the rules.

[olddirtbikes]

  Hi,
    Thanks Kane, well put.  Firko, I think you need to stick to the facts.
    Brad, Thanks. As I stated I have tried to state the facts as best I know.
    And Brad If you are going to write my name could you at least spell it right,
    one 'L' Alan.  
        

[olddirtbikes]

  Hey Brad,
                which bike in particular are you talking about? I have 1 A model, 5 b models a couple of C's a couple of N's and I just got a 500 and a couple of 465's.
 

[olddirtbikes]

 'O' Brad,
            nearly forgot there is a couple of 400's there somewhere.

[TM BILL]

Olddirtbikes just to clarify was one of the protested bikes yours 

[TM BILL]

I take it thats a NO then 

[090]

I started posting about this subject to back up a mate ( as you do) from personal attacks and little or no constructive criticism . Im finally done with it    
Its threads like these that start other threads that start with 'Where's Firko' or 'Where's Doc'. Stuff that.

  Hey Brad,
                which bike in particular are you talking about? I have 1 A model, 5 b models a couple of C's a couple of N's and I just got a 500 and a couple of 465's.
 

 

Seems that olddirtbikes is one of the bikes in question, being a C model rm125 with a B tank on it. So how do you explain this bike Allan?

Is that not specific enough? Dont worry about it Alan.

[motomaniac]

I bought my rm 125 b 5 years ago and have always though it was and is a b model. i have never changed anything on it.

the tripple clamps and forks are b. back wheel and hub etc are b.( the sprocket is different on the c.)  no extended air caps. the swingarm i reckon is c model.  i have sanded the paint off and someone has welded a brake stay arm bracket onto the frame. i am getting a bit of alloy to weld to the swingarm to mount the arm there. on the c there was a bracket to hold the tank on. i cant find evidence on mine. i really think it is a b.

we can all point the finger if something is incorrect but i dont think anyone can deduce the reasoning why it was done.

Kane , sounds like you have a B model with a C swingarm.The previous owner might have had an aftermarket arm and aftermarket brake arm  and swapped the aftermarket arm for a stock C. Either way sounds like its only the swimgarm.Didn't anyone check the frame and Engine numbers??derrrrr
[/quote]

[TM BILL]

I bought my rm 125 b 5 years ago and have always though it was and is a b model. i have never changed anything on it.

the tripple clamps and forks are b. back wheel and hub etc are b.( the sprocket is different on the c.)  no extended air caps. the swingarm i reckon is c model.  i have sanded the paint off and someone has welded a brake stay arm bracket onto the frame. i am getting a bit of alloy to weld to the swingarm to mount the arm there. on the c there was a bracket to hold the tank on. i cant find evidence on mine. i really think it is a b.

we can all point the finger if something is incorrect but i dont think anyone can deduce the reasoning why it was done.

Kane , sounds like you have a B model with a C swingarm.The previous owner might have had an aftermarket arm and aftermarket brake arm  and swapped the aftermarket arm for a stock C. Either way sounds like its only the swimgarm.Didn't anyone check the frame and Engine numbers??derrrrr

[/quote]

Motomaniac you have had a hell of a lot to say on this subject in both threads (as is your right as a forum member) Im just curious were you at the event ? or do your opinions come from an armchair 2 states away 

[motomaniac]

Which two subjects? but yes my opinions are my opinions not based on seeing the bikes in question but then I don't need to see an RM125C to know that it doesn't have 40mm or actually 1mm more travel than an RM125B.I saw them back in the day and still see them at races now.
Now I have a question for you .Do you know why someone didnt check the eng and frame numbers or why no enthusiasts seem to have any old mags lying around to refer too?
Aren't you from across the tasman.Do you have these issues over there?

[TM BILL]

There were 2 threads on this subject the first is now locked.
I dont think the issue was travel it was that the components were fitted from a 78C model and the Class is PRE 78
However this has been thrashed out in both threads .

I was at the meeting and entered and rode the first race in this class . I saw all the bikes concerned , know the protester well and support his right to protest , as that is the procedure as laid down by the governing body . I met one of the protested owners at the event on day one and have raced him before ,they are both good blokes and fair competitors .Im sorry i dont know the other 2 people who were protested but one of them has posted on here and has said he accepts the desicion , fair play to him.

The thing what suprises me the most is that these bikes have not been picked up earlier at other meetings  I stand to be corrected but i think i have seen all these bikes at other meetings over the last couple of years ( and i only do a couple of meetings in Aussie a year )

I as a competitor take responsibility for not pointing out to fellow competitors potential illegalitys with their machines when if i see them.
Maybe instead of all coming on here after the fact and creating a shit storm while defending our mates rights we all take the time to monitor ours and our mates bikes then protest can be avoided .

In NZ we dont generally have to many issues but then we dont have governing body , we are self  policing and i personally would push for a claiming rule rather than a protest system as i believe this would make people check their bikes more thourgh.

Its not all beer and skittles over here though and some people will push the limits , its human nature.

I very much enjoy racing in Australia and if finances allowed i would be there every other weekend , You have imho better racing through the pack over there , but our top riders are quicker (runs for cover )

You have a governing body , rule book and a system that seems to work , if its not working your the members change the system.
Comments like "he would have won anyway " dont cut it . If a bike is deemed outside the rules by the officals then accept it or move to have the rule changed but dont shoot the messanger.

Bill Doe #219

[AjayVMX]

It seems that it is quite possible and indeed likely that ignorance about the differences between a B and C model RM125 has caused this regretable situation.  But of course, ignorance is not a defence when a National title is at stake and protesters should NOT be vilified if they have a genuine case to protest about.

I happen to know the differences between these two bikes pretty well, as it just so happened that my first true MX bike was an RM125C.  But even if you didn't know the differences, it is really easy to find out what they were in old magazines.

In essence the main mechanical differences were:

RM125B
Alloy Tank
Steel (painted black) Swingarm
Non-Full Floating rear brake
Direct mounted handlebars, in line with the axis of the forks (forks could not be raise to improve steering)

RM125C
Plastic Tank
Alloy Swingarm
Full Floating rear brake
Rubber mounted handlebars, with offset mounting to allow forks to be adjusted up and down in the triple clamps.  The new triple clamps also has a different offset to improve steering geometry.

It was a common thing (in 1978 and later) to mount a B model tank and plastics to a C, as they looked better.

The bottom line though (and no matter how much you may argue that some of these changes are not performance enhancements) is that 1978 parts are NOT legal when racing in the pre-78 class at the National level, because the compatibility issue is ERA based, not performance related.