The pre-78 solo protest.

[bigk]

The rules are at best flawed and anyone could find something to pick on virtually any bike and have it upheld if they wanted to, which leaves the whole situation open more to an individuals personality. Forget the '78 bikes masquerading as '77, no qualms there, but rubber mounted bar clamps is total BS. I find it hard to believe that you can have modern shocks, tapered bars, modern style expansion chambers etc, but yet to race a bog stock off the showroom floor, '77 Husqvarna or Montesa, you have to REDUCE the suspension travel. Huh? As for Belly's brakes, IMO they are not legal as they are clearly a performance advantage. That .2 of a second he gained every corner of every lap certainly helped his lap times, even though he still could have won by a country mile on the standard items. Maybe this is why his bike didn't get a protest, but it seems he was cut some "slack" or maybe his status was intimidating to the other riders. Going on the pre '78 125 solo protest, any rider in Belly's class could have protested and have had it upheld. Wouldn't that have put the cat amongst the pidgeons? The guy who made the protest in pre '78 125's was beaten by better riders, pure & simple. He knows it too.
K

[firko]

What's the background Dave or Firko?

I was called in to make an opinion on the protest as the meetings designated eligibility steward, Dave Tanner was the actual protestor. I gave the chief steward an opinion on Daves protest which I'd be better keeping to myself at this point as the matter is going on to the next level of judiciary.

[Nathan S]

The guy who made the protest in pre '78 125's was beaten by better riders, pure & simple. He knows it too.

Absolutely - on both counts.
But he was also beaten by illegal bikes, which IS fair enough to protest.

I don't believe that the motivation for the protest was about results - it was much more about getting people to stick to the rules that we all agree to race under. To continue to turn a blind eye is to invite further "testing" of the rules - at some point, someone is going to have to say "This is not on - I am going to protest that bike".

I wonder what the response would have been if the protest had been lodged by a back-marker like myself? I'll bet money that there'd be an even bigger outcry: "F**king wanker back in 11th place knocks out three of the top riders - he'd have been beaten anyhow, so I don't know WTF he thinks he's doing!"... Can't win...


The real way to avoid these dramas is to race legal (not illegal or even 'almost legal') bikes. And now everyone is on notice, so maybe we'll be granted a few drama-free years now?

I'm keen to hear about the pre-65 stuff too.

[bigk]

Nathan, you would have had every right to protest had you seen fit, but perhaps it would not have been "in the spirit" of the event. I am also led to believe the same possibly goes for the protester, who according to my information was about 10-15 seconds behind the leaders. I doubt the listed discrepancies with the bikes had anything to with the gap being so substantial. If it were 1-2 seconds and meant the difference between 1st & 2nd, then maybe, but IMO even that's a stretch. The '78 bikes made to look like '77 were wrong, if indeed that was the case, but to sook about air valve caps & rubber bar mounts is trivial. I don't know the guy but I think he made a poor decison. Still in 20 years time I suppose he will be the only one who will remember how he "won" his trophy.
K

[shortshifter]

This sounds like the system is working..
the onus is on riders to compete,protest and appeal within the framework set out by MA,the GCRs and/or supp regs.Sounds like it was well handled by those on the ground.Vigorous discussion by those involved and on the sidelines facilitated by Nathan's thread is healthy as maybe it might lead to changes if some are needed.Can the system be improved?maybe:who would undertake this?who knows.What would a nationals be without some controversy?

[All Things 414]

Huh? As for Belly's brakes, IMO they are not legal as they are clearly a performance advantage. That .2 of a second he gained every corner of every lap certainly helped his lap times, even though he still could have won by a country mile on the standard items. Maybe this is why his bike didn't get a protest, but it seems he was cut some "slack" or maybe his status was intimidating to the other riders. K

100% totally agree. I'm sure had someone (where ever they were running in the proceedings) protested this bike they would have been howled down by the VMX hiarchy but they'd be well within their rights and going by some of these other protest, it would have to be upheld.

[mx250]

Huh? As for Belly's brakes, IMO they are not legal as they are clearly a performance advantage. That .2 of a second he gained every corner of every lap certainly helped his lap times, even though he still could have won by a country mile on the standard items. Maybe this is why his bike didn't get a protest, but it seems he was cut some "slack" or maybe his status was intimidating to the other riders. K

100% totally agree. I'm sure had someone (where ever they were running in the proceedings) protested this bike they would have been howled down by the VMX hiarchy but they'd be well within their rights and going by some of these other protest, it would have to be upheld.

I agree; mutton dressed as lamb - wank, wank. Ditto black rims et al. The performance difference is a poofteenth, the appearance is abysmal - should be charged by the police and locked up for 'offences in a public place' or 'lewd act' or something similar.

Recommence normal transmission.

[motomaniac]

Huh? As for Belly's brakes, IMO they are not legal as they are clearly a performance advantage. That .2 of a second he gained every corner of every lap certainly helped his lap times, even though he still could have won by a country mile on the standard items. Maybe this is why his bike didn't get a protest, but it seems he was cut some "slack" or maybe his status was intimidating to the other riders. K

100% totally agree. I'm sure had someone (where ever they were running in the proceedings) protested this bike they would have been howled down by the VMX hiarchy but they'd be well within their rights and going by some of these other protest, it would have to be upheld.

I agree; mutton dressed as lamb - wank, wank. Ditto black rims et al. The performance difference is a poofteenth, the appearance is abysmal - should be charged by the police and locked up for 'offences in a public place' or 'lewd act' or something similar.
And how many poofteenths of a difference do you think rubber mounted handlebars and extended forkcaps make???
Some consistancey please.

[Nathan S]

Nathan, you would have had every right to protest had you seen fit, but perhaps it would not have been "in the spirit" of the event. I am also led to believe the same possibly goes for the protester, who according to my information was about 10-15 seconds behind the leaders. I doubt the listed discrepancies with the bikes had anything to with the gap being so substantial. If it were 1-2 seconds and meant the difference between 1st & 2nd, then maybe, but IMO even that's a stretch. The '78 bikes made to look like '77 were wrong, if indeed that was the case, but to sook about air valve caps & rubber bar mounts is trivial. I don't know the guy but I think he made a poor decison. Still in 20 years time I suppose he will be the only one who will remember how he "won" his trophy.
K

I do see your point, but where is the line drawn? Everybody has their own point where they say "That's taking things too far" - obviously the protester thought that this time.

To try to vilify him as a trophy hunting pedant is wide of the mark.

[Kane Mcguire]

well guys, first i think this discussion is healthy.   From this incident i do not think there will be an increase in riders protesting minor stuff.   My view is that if a bike lines up in pre 78 with 12" of suspension at both ends, we would all tell him to piss off! no need for formal protest! The smaller stuff doesnt worry me.

[bigk]

Not trying to vilify anyone. Maybe he was after a trophy, maybe not although from where I'm standing the former looks to be the case, otherwise why protest, just because he can? And for such trivial points which are then upheld and someone is disqualified who may have well been innocent of "cheating". My point is the rules are way off the mark and are easily manipulated according to whatever agenda might suit. Maybe, just maybe, someone got in that fellows ear and urged him to make a protest for the hell of it just to see what eventuated. Could quite easily happen. If I were on the judiciary that day and heard that protest, I would have dismissed it on the grounds of stupidity and saved everyone a lot of heartache. By the way did anyone actually proove the bike to have an extra 40mm of fork travel or just take it on say so because it had a different triple clamp? I'm led to beleive the bike's suspension limit was well within  the legal limits. Fair point Kane, nice & simple.
K

[motomaniac]

You watch now, every slightly ilegal bike will be outed in the name of revenge. Get a grip Stu, Jimmy and others.

Hang on Firko.Get a grip on what ?On one hand you praise Dean Burts merticulous bike prep with PDvavles and Wilburs etc and Belly's 500 , and I'm not against all that .Its one of the attractions of the sport.But then another guy gets pummelled for having a much more stock looking bike with rubber handle bar mounts and extended fork caps???Both these items where common place in the era.If there was some extra travel it couldn't have been the said 40mm unless they were from a 79 model .
Whatever it would have been a joke of a bike if that was the case and would n't turn.
On  one hand you have guys saying go by the rules and then you have guys(sometimes the same guys) calling people rule book Nazis.You have people carrying on about some guy fromWA causing trouble pointing the finger at bikes and everyone wants to spit on him ,then someone points the finger at some fork caps and rubber mounts but thats okay suddenly.

One guys says there is such a thing as carry over models and parts and another guys says Handle  bars ,disc brakes suspension etc are okay to be 09 stuff .Yet the rule book says 18.7.14.4 All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured.

Yes well we don't want every sligtly illegal bike to be outed do we? But IT SEEMS TO ME THATS THE WHOLE POINT .
some consistency please.

[Freakshow]

I think the whole meeting's results should be null and ran again this Sunday at Barrabool....
(You'll have to fight out the Pre 75 stuff the following week at Shepparton)

though that was closing ?  or are you sponsoring there big WALL with a monty sell off ?

[micks]

log books anyone?

[090]

Hey Brad , Did you have restrictors in your aw?
Dont think so??
I checked
Get off your high horse

Maico stu

Please elaborate? I am assuming you mean my rear shocks are not legal?