Benelli 650 flat tracker.

[firko]

I'm currently collecting parts to build a Benelli 650 flat tracker and during my research came accross the ex Gene Hartline Benelli Trackmaster in an American book. A little more research uncovered that the bike has actually lived in Australia for a good portion of its life. It sold at the Melbourne Motor Show auction in 2005 and disappeared from view. I'm very interested in viewing the bike or may even consider buying it if it was for sale and was wondering if anybody knows of its post auction history or of its current wherabouts?
           
             http://vft.org/xFamousBikes/BenelliTrackmaster/BenelliTrackmaster.html

For the build I'm using a Trackmaster copy frame made by an unknown builder that I got off eBay for a song and a 650 Benelli Tornado engine I got off Jonathan Houston. I'm building this on the elCheapo and rather than finding a period correct Barnes/Airheart rear wheel and brake combo I've decided to use latish Japanese motocrosser back wheel and disc brake preferably with a 19" rim but 18" will do. Does anybody have something they'd like to sell? I'm also looking for a set of 40mm or close road bike forks and triples. I'm not building this bike to any MoMs class structure so I'm not so worried about period authenticity. This is going to be a Bonanza/club day/garage queen fun bike. PM me if you have any info or parts you may want to sell.
                                       

[Freakshow]

firko is that the bike in question above ?

from what i can see its got early cut frame loops but not his pre 68 bike that would have been brakeless rigid frame, so this one is a little later perhaps from niel keens 69-71 truimph bends looking at them and with a support bar welded in the centre to pick up a top motor mount,  been fitted with later rear glass (wont fit properly) and a modified front tank ( maybe a C&J),  the forks look like 35mm mazzochi or similar in this pic, but they dont look like normal pre 74 racing forks, so they have been changed out over time,  the right footpeg is welded out maybe to clear the cases, which seems to have caused issues later with the rear pedal placment so they must have later fitted a late model front hydrolic brake to run the rear disk as in the pic, which dont look right, but then again if he was using it for stunting would explain the mod for wheelies etc. So if your modifying a normal trackmaster copy take note of these bits and the pick up points as it going to need some welds and tube cuts, if its going to take this donk and that glass.

for a repro im not sure i would be going up to 40mm in the forks as they would be ugly, even in the legs unless you detabbed all the caliper mounts and the triples would also add to the issues, why not fit up any 35mm set, heaps of choices and then you can change the forks in an out if you want backing plates etc, im going through that Atm, i want to set up a front brakes for the 35mm forks , ( i need some front end stopping) but will put the spooler front end to one side and just use for static stuff.

I looked at the rear as well to fit in a TM style rear but the tracky has like a 22m axle and its wide, like about 32mm so im not sure whats going to work in there easy enough, be interested to see what you do as id like to do the same, ( but in a drum) easy and means i can drop the disk in for same reason above if static diplaying. 

The pick up for the disk on the arm is in an OK place for a brake stay, but would need to be a short, Hand made jobby but its a straight run so thats oK, how are you mounting the foot pedal for the drum brake rod - or are you adimitt youll  refit an airheart ?  i think you issue will be spacers in the arm, unless you have a wide hub its going to look lost and off set.

Im changing my tracky back to pre 70 so im on the hunt for the 5" rear guard, a bates solo style seat and a tear drop tank.  IF you can source them id be happy to do a deal on my rear seat and matching tank set, or portions of above, that should see you right for the above look anyway.

iwas going to add a picture in here but its ot allowing me that option ATM ?

[firko]

Thanks for the input Freaky, I knew you wouldn't be able to resist as this is your ball game. Yeah the photos are of the bike in question. I just got an email from the Aussie former owner and it appears that the bike has gone back to the USA to the original owners mechanic. No worries, I'll build my own and it'll look a lot better than the Hartline bike for a smidge of the price!
I thought of the roady 40mm front end as my mate Mike Middleton has a set of skimmed down GSXR750 forks and triples in his CR450f flat tracker. Mike reckons the triples have the correct offset and the forks work well and are pretty light once all of the gizmo brackets are machined off. However I've given it a bit more thought and you're probably right and perhaps I should use 35mm forks. I've got a few sets of CZ forks and they're good in the fact that they don't have any brake stay or mudguard brackets and look pretty smooth. The triple clamps are billet and pretty light so rather than spend up on the fat forks, I may as well go with the CZ units as I've already got them. I have a speedway spool front hub and will look into whether it's adaptable to the 19" Borrani rim I want to use, failing that my mate Mike has a Kosman spool front wheel from his Triumph that he'll sell me. I'll set up the pegs and brakes using whatever fits and will probably use a speedway style swinging footpeg like Jonesy has on his Redline Nourish. I've got a spare left side Rickman brake pedal so I'll see if that's suitable, if not I'll make something.

The MX back wheel is just the ticket. I'm going to get a new swingarm made for my frame as it came with a Triumph swingarm and it's a bit narrow. I'll have the frame guy make it to suit whatever wheel I end up with. Below are some shots I took this morning of the engine sitting loose in my frame. I was originally a bit worried that the Benelli motor wouldn't fit as it's a humungous lump of typically overengineered Italian alloy. As you can see it'll go in with no problems and I've already worked out how I'm going to mount it. The frame is "Trackmasterish" but has some features from other makes. It's obviously home made but the workmanship is pretty good in the actual tubework but the brackets are rough as if two different people had a hand in it. I have to remove most of the mounts anyway do I'll do it much neater. Another point I don't like is that the frame is MIG welded which no matter how good the welding is (it's good)), it always looks a bit rough. I'll lightly grind them back and bronze weld over the top to tidy the whole thing up before powdercoating. The bodywork was also aquired on eBay and except for some fork damage up front which is easily repairable is in good nick. If I'm careful I may be able to save the cool period flame job too!

I'm keeping the engine stone stock, and even keeping the electric starter for ease of operation. I realise that Benelli 650s aren't in the same league as XS650 Yamaha or Triumph engines but they're as reliable as a Holden 179 and it'll still be plenty fast for this old fatboy to have some fun. I'll just pull it down and replace whatever needs replacing like rings or whatever. It's from a low mileage bike that crahed back in the 70s so it shouldn't need much. The frame cost me $40US,the bodywork $100US and the engine $400AU so I can't see why I shouldn't have it on the track for under 2k.

I'm trying to have it ready for next years Bonanza at Broadford where we're hoping to have up to 30 flat trackers there. Jonesys trying to get the flat track boys revved up for the event. Already Phippsy's OK'd that he's bringing his ex Eddie Lawson Shell OW Yamaha 750 and my old SC500 Champion and Jonesys bringing his Nourish and maybe his #1 frame number Trackmaster BSA750. Pete will hopefully bring the green Astro he built for his daughter Kristi. The Kurri club blokes have talked about coming along which will swell the ranks considerably. It'd be cool if you could bring a few of your bikes as well Freaky.
 

[Freakshow]

YOur right that is an interesting frame....... im not sure its a trackmaster copy cause the runs and bracing are too far removed, the only like point is the backbone, which is common enough, even in styleisation.  maybe even for a tt500, im actually thinking its somthing else like a gringo or a similar mock up, i have seen this before so its not too back yard, as in if there is more than one its a shop job, let me think about this a bit more and it will come too me.  it does look like a short track or a TT frame,(where are the peg mounts) and what i cant see is the swing arm pivot bolt , where does that connection go through high up or low ?

its a lot smaller in the backbone tubing than the trackmaster too, is it chromo or just mild steel ?

Looks too like that back loop has been up in for a champion rear glass and picks up on the top of the glass as it goes through the loop.

For the front wheel you'll get the same effect for next to stuff all by using a TX, honda or similar period front wheel and just ditch the rotors off, still pre 75 and was done by all the pro novice guys and under, at the time when amatures looked to save money ( as you know spools arent cheap) i think i paid $30 for a complete TX wheel ( alloy) and also got a xs650 recently (with the steel rim) for about $15 so they are cheap as, and easy to get your project of the ground you can review it later if need be, or you stumble across a bargin spool.  which happens. see TX wheel in pic below

personally i wouldnt use that seat it dont fit right unless you cut the sides and fill the back, try a champion, or use the later Trackmaster and it will cover it over properly.

Does the exh. pass the frame tubes ? and are you going to cut the frame an mount it low off the motor or are you going to try and set it up like that in the frame, if your going to all that effot to mod it id go the full deal and see if you cant hang it, but those Repo tubes dont look much when you compare them to the big trackmaster tubes.

Im trying to sort out tripples for a champion Frame ATM and i cant get my head around the tapered bearing bit, i have found 2 set of triples in the shed and one i see is a betor ( see other thread) have no idea what they were off and also slim bombadier style betor forks that fit in, although i havent used them cause im still going down this TM path ATM, i might be able to trade them if you want that flusher look.

[firko]

Freaky....Thanks for the front wheel tip. Anything to save money. The frame is extremely light so I'll assume it's Chro-Mo. The swingarm pivot is high, you can see it about three quarters of the way down the backbone. As far as where the motor sits I'm guided by the swingarm pivot. I need to have the countershaft as close and level with the swingarm pivot as possible so it'll be sitting pretty much where it is but a bit more upright.
I like the seat base and rounded tail over the square style Trackmaster or Champion style. If I cut the frame tail section off it may look better. The tank and seat actually could go back a couple of inches which will fill the gap a bit better. I'll take another photo tomorrow with the tank further back and the swingarm mounted which will put it in better perspective. I'll give it some thought but in the meantime I'll borrow Alans Trackmaster seat/tail and see if it fits better. I think you're right, it's more a short track frame than a miler or TT bike. The frame has never been finished so the pegs and brake pivot aren't fitted. It's got mounts for a 650 Triumph according to the Texan I bought it off. The dumb bastard was going to use it for motocross but it got too much for him. Still, a good deal for $40!

The stock pipes came with the engine and they run down under. I want to use a similar setup and not run through the frame pipes. Thanks for the fork offer, I'm interested in the Bombardier (Betors?) forks if you're not using them. What do you want to swap? What's the drama with tapered head bearings that's doing your head in?
Below is Alans Nourish which I'll use as a guide for peg placement and geometry.



 

[Freakshow]

actually your right cut the rear loop off, it shouldnt be there anyway the tracky has a cross brace bend across/under the seat, and a simple support rod that bolts behind top shock mount that then loop back up and holds up the rear of the tail.

my Steering head issue, well it has no front end so i need to find somthing that takes tapers ( not sure what i need) and a right sized lower clamp part. ifd prefer the TM front as its alloy and i like the front wheel and forks, and im not so smart when it come to mix and matching.

so far these are my 2 options i found in the shed --> http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=7885.new#new

[Freakshow]

why cant i put photos in this thread ? i cant see the option in the additional options part ? has somthing changed ?

[micks]

bring it on! battle of the tiwns at blayney long track.

[micks]

forget blayney nsw dirt track championship held at nepean in august are running a battle of the twins class (max of 12 bikes) and it is open to any twin modern or old.

[firko]

There's been a bit of a change in plans for my Trackmaster Benelli. The first and most important is that I've managed to get a genuine Trackmaster frame. According to experts I've spoken to it's a limited run frame from around 1976 when Trackmasters Ken Hensley was experimenting with Chassis adjustability. If you look closely at the photo you'll see that the swingarm pivot area features adjustable height locations. Used in conjunction with adjustible triple clamps, this provided a lot of chassis tuning capability to allow for ever changing track conditions. The bloke who sold me the frame told me it's to suit a Yamaha XS650/750 twin but those front engine mounts look too far apart to me. I asked the seller to send me the frame # but he 'd already sent the frame off before he got my email...or so he said. No matter what it originally housed is irrelevent as my big Benelli engine is going in there. Another interesting point is the lower seat subframe. Compare it to the above Hartline Benelli rear subframe and you'll see the difference.

Another change in plans is that I'll be using "mag" style wheels instead of wires. I've got a set of what I think are Yammy RD400 wheels from Walter that look cool but I also have a pair of magnesium Morris wheels from a Kawasaki superbike. A third choice is a Honda Comstar wheel from a CX500. I'd like an 18 or 19'' one to match. At the moment the Morris wheels are getting the go. I hope the frame gets here quickly as I want this bike to be on the track for the Broadford Bonanza in April.
Below: She's rusty but rare. I was never 100% happy with the other "Trackmaster copy" frame as the welding was not up to sctatch and I didn't know what it's history and origin were. I'll tuck it away for another project down the line. I have a notion to build a Honda 750 4 tracker but I'll settle for the Benelli for the time being.         
         
        Below: Yamaha RD wheels. 
         
        Rare magnesium Morris race wheel from a GPZ Kawasaki superbike with coated Alumium disc rotor. I have two fronts so one will be used on the  rear.
                                   

[Freakshow]

what are the 2 hole mount mid way int he spine near the tank mount ?

still say its an ice bike.

[micks]

could be the top engine mount if it suits a xs650.the frame has a mount bolt in the middle of the lower craddle as 650 do,as firko noted that front mount looks funny most bolt right thru the motor no plates.

[firko]

what are the 2 hole mount mid way int he spine near the tank mount ?

I'd say they're top mounts which point towards a Yamaha motor. There's a Trackmaster Yamaha frame for sale on VFT right now. The front mounts look almost identical so I guess my frame is for a Yamaha. See below:

Did Trackmaster make a specific ice bike Freaky and if so what are the differences other than the possible lower seating position? None of my American friends have considered the ice racer option but that doesn't mean it isn't. I'd just like to see a picture of one if there is such a thing.

[firko]

Here's what appears to be a similar frame to mine, with the lower seat subframe. If it's not, it's a cool bike anyway.
 

[Freakshow]

NA that Suzi is normal, just the guard is full forward in the frame ,and i think it was a oil in frame miler for a tri or bsa anyway, far bit of info on that bike doing the rounds, basically same as Tom hortons S500 in Dans.  think thats still online too.

ICe bike are usually the same but they mess about with the fronts and rears for the Big full wheel covers and the bar position are usually set lower.  They way your frame sits it would be good for a short person or somthing like the rear cover as it will still give the travel  and gaps to get the wheel out etc with that rear.  Just another idea. MY other one was for a Salt lake Bike, it may have been built that way for a for a stream liner cover, i know Don vesco and his guys where messing with that stuff for years in the late 60 and 70's particulaly i thnk he still has the worlds fastest 250/500 set back then, they also did a lot with TR2/3 motors and the ealry yamaha twins so check that option.  get the frame numbers.

 IT was done for something specific, whatever that was, its not a normal pre 75 dirt track frame.