budget bikes?

[firko]

I went to the South Canterbury Motorcycle Clubs 100th anniversary at Timaru NZ last weekend. I spotted this sweet pre 60 class Royal Enfield and immediately thought of this thread. It's a beauty but perhaps not so low budget as an Indian version would be..
                                         

[EML]

Alot of looong nights in sth Canterbury, so they can sit around and polish stuff!

[VMX247]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/James-vintage-motorbike-J15-cadet-villiers-motor_W0QQitemZ230399461189QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycles?
hash=item35a4e0c745

if only she could talk   
cheers

[Marc.com]

sit in Canterbury polishing a sheeps ass more like it. Though I must admit fitting an Enfield ignition to my B44... you know the proper Indian one.

[clutchslip]

Posted by: firko

At the next Classic dirt we'll have you drinking Margaritas and Absinthe as we sit around talking about the exploits of Brian Stonebridge and Arthur Lampkin while extolling the virtues of cast iron and Amal carbs.
Welcome to the dark side my friend! Grin

Hey Firko, less of the cast iron! While the Holy Grail heroes at CZ were still casting anchor-weight barrels out of iron, and eons before Don Emler and the comedy twins at DG were knocking up trick heads, both the Greeves factory and the very first 'hop up' kings of Vale-Onslow, Parkinson, Marcelle and their ilk were producing all alloy two-stroke engines to beat those oh-so-heavy all-alloy factory four-bangers that had been around since the Norton 500T factory / Alfin attempt immediately post war....

So Mark, this is nothing personal, but I for one feel there's a whole chapter of motocross history, and a highly significant part at that, in the form of British two-stroke development, that tends to get overshadowed by the blinding sparkle of nickle frames and lost in the din of those difficult to ignore four-stroke exhausts, however beautiful those may be. Greeves' loss with Stonebridge's death was to some extent compensated for in the riding department by subsequent double European champion for them Bickers, but the development ace was gone, and the factory and maybe the rest of the British industry in fact died that day too, despite the later championships. Bickers' move to CZ (and even Husqvarna) immediately afterwards shows not just how far they had fallen behind but also how they had lost hope of catching the new 'European' factories. The fact that these were regularly fielding 20+ 'works' bikes and riders, compared to Greeves amateurish levels of support expains in no small part those factories success at the highest levels. But it also shows us that those early CZs were never a bike for the masses in the way that Greeves were. Most of which makes me angry when I see an ex-Bickers CZ is for sale IN THE STATES, for 14,500 dollars. And not just because this bike should clearly have a home in the UK. But also because I recently spotted an ex ISDT Greeves 250, ie a genuine 'works' or 'OW' equivalent Greeves sell for 1,300 Dollars in the States. Complete and original. Astounding. So if we want to talk about 'budget bikes', lets talk about where the value really is to be found at the moment, not just in dollar terms, but in potential race-winning bikes, in the form of these early to mid-'60s Greeves.

[Marc.com]

Your right man the bloody twins are over rated 

[firko]

Clutchy...I couldn't agree more. Greeves, Cotton, DOT, Sptite and all of the other British 2 strokers of the fifties and sixties have long been overlooked in motocross history at the expence of Rickman, Cheney and the 'shiny bikes'.

Brian Stonebridge is one of motocross histories most influencial yet forgotten heroes. If he hadn't died in that car accident who knows what direction Greeves may have taken. That's not to say that blokes like Bickers, Bryan Wade and many others didn't achieve greatness on the marque, it's just that CZ had the development money and those amazing Belgian and Eastern European riders to effectively shadow the British 2 stroke achievements.

Unfortunately the Greeves/Villiers story is typical of the sixties British motor industry in general. They sat on their arses without developing newer, faster products for way too long. As successful as they were on the home front they failed to take the European factories seriously until it was too late. The same thing happened again later in the decade when they treated the threat from Japan with similar arrogance.

The British 2 stroker is indeed a cheapish entry into the market as Wolverines DOT, Alisons Sprite and Jonesys American Eagle/Sprites have shown. I myself have a Cotton Cobra basket case waiting for some shed love and I'm assembling the parts to eventually build a Sprite Maico as my homage to Brit technology (overlooking the German engines of course  ). Greeves, especially the later QUB Challengers were extremely competitive and the Hawkestones and other alloy spar framed Greeves models make great pre 65 weapons when combined with modern ignitions and tuning technology. The trouble down here in Oz is actually finding the bikes. For some reasons Greeves rarely come up for sale despite their popularity back in the day. DOTS, Cottons and other small Brit makes are even rarer. Luckily as we've discovered, American Eagle/Sprites are still as cheap as chips in the USA.
America in fact is the best place to find a British bike, no matter what it is. It's cheaper and shitloads easier than getting them out of the UK.
Below: Rod McDonalds sweet Brit 2 strokers. His Anzani powered Dot is surrounded by a pair of Greeves

[clutchslip]

Posted by: marcFX

Your right man the bloody twins are over rated  Grin

Little bit difficult to tell where I live...

http://www.pre65.co.uk/photos/marks-tey-16-11-2008/115.aspx

[Marc.com]

Little bit difficult to tell where I live...

Yeah bit difficult to even see the bikes under the layer of mud  ...but what I did see were B44s going round in pre 65 and the world has not stopped turning, say it isn't so.

[firko]

Here's a pretty good starter for a project an American friend of ours, Mobility Impaired Al, offered us a while ago in a package deal with a trick Bolger framed OSSA MAR trials bike. From memory it was lees than a grand for both bikes. The Greeves has some unusual bits such as the pipe. The front wheels from something Japanese but overall it's a cool unit if you're into such stuff.

[Freakshow]

That front pipe is gold !

[albrid-3]

[frostype400]

That pipe is nice, nice expansion chamber built in and it is copper! I could build a much better copper one I will have a go at it one day some of those real bodgy jobs are a great talking peice I bet it ran fine with it too thanks, Michael.

[mainline]

just curious as to what tank is on these two? Is it the same tank?

[firko]

Paul they're BSA B44 GP tanks or replicas