budget bikes?

[vandy010]

that Cotton looks like a nice bit of gear.........for a 2 banger
wonder if Dj and Bill could throw it in thier luggage and bring it over for CD6?

[LWC82PE]

B44's should not be pre 65 legal full stop. They started making production models in 65 for the 66 model and in 66 for the 67 model. So dont see how and why they can get into pre 65.

[firko]

Believe it or not Leith, I think you're right . My whole argument about this situation that my learned advesary seems to be avoiding is why the G85 Matchless and others are allowed in pre 65 when the Matchy was released in 1966. Using the criteria that the G85 is a flow on from the G80 and therefore should be allowed, the B44 is a flow on from the B40 and the same criteria should be used to cover it. It's the same with the single downtube Cheney. I have photographic proof of Jerry Scott riding a single downtube Cheney in 1964* but that same photographic proof was ignored by the MA committee that ruled over Vern Graysons Cheney disqualification. Accepting that they were right and the Cheney wasn't made until 1965 then the Metisse Mk3a frame for unit engines must also be declared illegal as it wasn't produced until 1965. Now, I'm very happy to see the B44 stay in pre 70 if the same level playing field that excluded it and the Cheney is used to caregorise other outstanding bikes that have had a blind eye turned towards them. They're either all in thanks to the flow on rule or they're all out because of their age. We can't have it both ways.
This whole situation is way too complicated to discuss on the forum but I'll be more than willing to raise the whole sordid history and the political agedna that's driven it for the last 10 or so years around the Campfire at CD6. Trust me, if certain people didn't own B44 Beezas and Cheney single downtube framed machines, both items would be allowed in pre 65. That's my last word on it.

 *I'll present that piece of documentation to Michael at CD6 only because I can't put my hands on it right now.

[firko]

The Cotton is a perfect candidate for pre 65. I have a 1963 Cotton Cobra that had previously been fitted with a B40 BSA engine and later a Yammy DT1. She's a roughy but I've fixed her a bit and have fitted a Triumph T100 engine but I pulled it and fitted a CB77 305 Honda engine. I got distracted by other projects and shoved it into the garden shed for a future interest comeback. Even with the original Villiers Starmaker engine they can be made to hoot with some decent porting, a better pipe and modern electrics.

[Marc.com]

 Nevertheless they've got me thinking.....

yeah me too, this has been a great thread. I loved this article in CBD and have this recurring dream now about alchohol fueled 500cc singles. looks like my Cheney engine is about to get a birthday. 

[dirtrumpy]

$12K, which is a fair estimate of the cost to build my Pat French Framed Triumph 650 unit Metisse, is by no meas a budget bike.
The first 4 years of its life saw it fully registered and used as everyday transport with weekends spent off in the dirt heading west with overnight trips staying in remote bush pubs, and what a blast it was.
Last year I plonked it on the start line at Clarence with the Heaven boys, and what an even bigger blast that was.
Next month the bike will, for the first time, be used on the Nepean dirt track.
When Im too old to ride it round a track, back on the road it goes on full registration.
I rekon that $12k was bloody well spent!

[pancho]

That old AJS is just the thing. It'd be a piece of piss to switch it over to motocross trim and give it its third life. Even though it's pretty obvious that the Enfield electric start option might get you in trouble with the rule Nazis, the Enfield India is still legal for pre 65. The above list is certainly large but you'd be wrestling rhinos to find most of them, let alone find one on the cheap.

its a beauty, the best maggy and the better model gearbox.it has a matcho barrel but who cares!.keep the comp below 9.5to 1[to keep the barrell on] shove some good cams in it and away you go. get rid of the hairpins to.cheers wally.

[LWC82PE]

In 1964 Jeff Smith won the world championship on a hybrid C15/B40 of around 440cc or a bit more. In November 64 there was a prototype B44GP built based on Jeffs factory hybrid bike. These went into production part way through 1965 and were classed as 66 models. In 65 Jeff won the world championship for a second time on a modifed production B44GP. After securing the 65 world 500cc championship part way though 65, he was told to ride a stock B44GP just like the public for good PR. Production of the GP stoped in 67.

That information is from various BSA books and i also have engine and frame numbers of 99% of all BSA's built. under the 64 and 65 models list there is no B44. B44's are only listed under the 66 and 67 model years.

So in my opinion i feel no B44's should be allowed in PRE 65 and i dont think they should be classed as a follow on model as the engines are totally different and not much at all interchanges between the 350 and 441cc bikes.

[mainline]

does every component have to be pre65?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BSA-Fuel-tank_W0QQitemZ160337345648QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2554d9bc70&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

and the AJS sold for $2888, is that cheap?

[mainline]

bsa frame, how much are these worth?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BSA-A7-A10-FRAME_W0QQitemZ190309236552QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2c4f507f48&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[Marc.com]

probably at least that, they work well with triumph engine.

[JC]

So can someone tell me if the Bantam 175 4-sp is pre-65 legit?

[firko]

$600 for an A10/A65 bare frame is a lot of money in my eyes but I suppose they're getting a bit scarse. It'd make a great starter for a TRIBSA special as Marc says. At one stage prior to the advent of purpose built frames the TRIBSA was the hot ticket for scrambles stardom.
I reckon the basic TRIBSA shown could be built for around 5k using a bit of savvy eBay and old mates network shopping.

Assuming you get the frame for $600 and using eBay USA pricing for parts here's how I break it down
*Frame: Top dollar at $600
*forks/triple clamps/front wheel: Bultaco Betor forks and full width hub @ wheel $200
*rear wheel/shocks: I'd use a Rickman Montesa rear wheel $100. Period sympathetic Konis or Girlings can be had for under $50 or see Walter for some decent YSS UNITS. keeping it cheap though, allow $100 for second hand whatever.
*Engine:rather than using a pre unit engine and AMC or BSA box like most, I'd use a cheaper and simpler and mor common T100 unit 500 I've seen complete engines for as little as $400us but allow $1000au.
*tank/seat: Replica Metisse bodywork can be bought for under $500 or for a real cheapo you could use an alloy Husky tank and seat for around $200.

That brings the basic bike in at around 2.5k. Double that for engine freshen up, paint, polish and upholstery, tyres and possible wheel rebuild and you've got a very basic TRIBSA up and on the track for around 5k. Many will do it cheaper, some will spend a lot more but on average you should be able to get a basic low bling TRIBSA on the track. Building a bike like a TRIBSA allows you to use a bit of artistic flair so why be restricted by someone elses idea of what's needed. Why not use a Yamaha MX125 front wheel (thanks for the tip Graeme) which already comes with a mudcatcher rim? Why not an alloy RM Suzuki tank polished up? What about CZ wheels and forks?

As you can see, the component list to build a TRIBSA is almost endless using the above list of eligible bikes and their parts. Below is a shot of Kevlar Herbies TRIBSA bling bike that has been fitted with Metisse bodywork to replicate a Metisse Mk2........like I said, the scope for parts choices is almost endless.

[firko]

John...I believe all Bantams are legal for pre 65. Below is Ray Atkins lovely and very trickold ex Bill Morris Bantam at CD4. They're cool but sooooo slow, no matter how much nitrous oxide you use.

[JC]

Mark,

Yes, I recall riding my mates std 125 3sp Bantam in about 71/72. I tho't it must have been 'coked up' it was sooo slow. Made a 125CZ look fast! (sorry CZ-philes)