Author Topic: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence  (Read 8519 times)

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Offline Nathan S

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2009, 10:39:16 am »
Dammit, missed Firko's most recent post. Yes, what he said.


I have a theory* that says that because we live in a safe society, basic human insitinct seeks out 'thrills' to keep us connected with more basic survival instincts.
Look at the way we indulge in risk taking behaviour (including racing dirt bikes) when we know that we'd be far safer going for a walk around the park...

The rise of pointless violence has pretty much happened in parallel with the rise of the nanny state.
To be sure, there's always been an element of society that's been keen on having some biffo, esp if drugs/booze are involved - but never in recent history has it been so vicsious and so prevelant.
By limiting personal freedoms in the name of protecting people from harm, people will then find new ways to put themselves in harm's way.

No doubt we've all seen that email about being a kid in the 50s/60s/70s/early 80s, that celebrates all of those fun but now-unacceptable things that should have killed us all - like walking home from school, drinking tap water, cracker night, etc... The removal of those freedoms, of those risks, and of those responsibilites, is IMHO a big part of the reason for the rise in pointless racism, pointless violence, and a lot of other social ills.


*You always know its going to be a quality post when it begins with those words... :D
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 10:54:21 am by Nathan S »
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

DR

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2009, 10:45:06 am »
 :D what never ceases to amaze me is people actually believe what the media publishes. Monkey see monkey do. I take anything I read in the papers or see on the news as utterly sensationalized or totally improvised stories until proven otherwise. For example, a footballer gets pinged for taking a discreet piddle in a carpark and another for a sex romp that happened 7 years ago! This dribble grabs media attention for weeks on end running headlines in all states and all channels yet at the same time 2 police were charged for the rape of a girl during the Victorian bushfires but that's only worthy of reporting for a day. Society is all arse about and sadly it's only getting worse. Roads and hospitals in ruins yet good old Backflip Bligh is so damn proud of the new billion $ football stadium the government sponsored..hypocrasy to the hilt!! it all sucks and excuse me for for not wanting to be a party to any of it ;) there ya go, I feel better already being the 'anti-social misfit' I am ;D

the classic that gets me is all these money handouts from the Government and not a single penny went to the homeless or destitute. The funds could have easily been accountable using vouchers which homeless and poor 'WOULD' spend locally but nooooo...give it to many who don't even need it and then simply put it in the bank. The rich get richer and the pot stinketh >:(
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 10:50:41 am by Doc »

Offline Wombat

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2009, 10:52:34 am »
WOW this has been an eye opener thread-never realized it was so bad in the city.
Skip,roo rooter,all new too me.We only shoot em with a shot gun/22 for dog meat or claim insurance when you hit one in/on your vehicle.
Some of our kids in the country would be amazed at reading the above.  :o
How sad that they are this bored generation of pumped up hormone lads, :(  where are there parents.?
Hope they don't end up in parliament.
cheers
And for the most part it is a 'City' thing. Too many people packed into too small an area, all puffin' their chests out in racially divided groups.
Live in the bush and stay in the bush if at all possible.
"Whadaya mean it's too loud?! It's a f*ckin' race bike!! That pipe makes it go louder - and look faster!!"

firko

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2009, 10:53:06 am »
With respect Nathan, you may be coccooned away from the situation in sleepy anglo saxon Yass.
If you live in the 'shire' or Bankstown it's a real problem. There was never any serious race problems with the original fifties and sixties influx of middle eastern immigrants, it's the reverse discrimination from their Aussie born children against us that is causing angst in society. I grew up and worked amongst Greek,Italian and Lebanese immigrants who copped the wog tag from a sixties society that knew no better but there was little animosity. It was merely a reaction from a previously all white population to something thay didn't initially understand. Eventually the barriers wore down and those immigrants became good Australian citizens, intergrating beautifully into our society. I'm very proud to have good friends of all three races from that initial immigration influx.

The "leb" problem we have today is a bizarre form of discrimination against anglo-saxon Australia by mostlyAussie born young men against other Aussies. It's based firmly on race and is getting more serious from month to month. It's so disapointing to people like me who have never previously held any racist beliefs and I'm not alone in those thoughts.
I'm no social anthropologist but I put the atitude down to two major factors:1 The resurgence of fundamental Islam and 2: The American 'Gangsta' rap culture. Ironically both of these influences have a poor track record in their respect for women which today manifests itself in the attitudes of the Lebanese at Cronulla (and other beaches), calling women in Bikinis sluts and hoares and calling their boyfriends "skip pimps". The worst case is shown in the Lebanese gang rapes of "Skip Ho's" in Sydney in recent years.

It's disapointing in that my first generation Lebanese friends are genuinely embarrased and distressed by the behaviour of these gangs. My mate Jusef is so proud of his four children but is openly worried that his 'homeboy' son Nad is involving himself into a culture that he (Jusef)can't relate to. It's all so serious and it's all so sad.

* As far as generational discrimination goes, there is no problem as long as the lesser generations still realise that the Boomers created their perfect world ;)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 10:55:20 am by firko »

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2009, 11:21:08 am »
Mate, I lived the Mazda rotary scene for a long time, mostly while living in Wollongong.

I know the shit that goes on, and I 'like' it just as little as everyone else - you'll notice that my quote could have been about (say) not liking homophobes and fags, but isn't.

But to simply generalise on such a touchy topic simply inflames the problem. If you were a fair minded Leb, and you spent your whole life listening to people whinge about "all of those flamin' Lebos", how long would it be before you became one of those flamin' Lebs"?
Particularly when the Leb gang mentality (NB: I'm not saying that they're formed into organised gangs) is ultimately quite similar to many other objectional behaviours exhibited by many other young people - its just one that is easy to identify and the current one that's getting the attention.
I remember as a teenager, all of the hype surrounding Asian gangs/street crime, and my parents talk of similar hype surrounding "wogs", bikies, "abos" etc etc prior to that.

Ah, gotta go to The Boy's combined birthday party, but you see the direction I heading. I'm no bleeding heart - arseholes are arseholes - we just need to keep things in perspective.





The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline asasin

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2009, 12:05:51 pm »
Sheesh, I leave South Africa to find the Kiwis are worse racists than the saffies and now this  ;D
I hope you are not in OZ care of one of our racist citizenships.Id hate to think you were slagging a country that helped you.I dont know what part of SA or NZ you lived in but you cannot compare the two even closely in the systematic racisim that South africa was involved in.
If in doubt ,WIND IT OUT

Offline Marc.com

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2009, 12:35:55 pm »
Sheesh, I leave South Africa to find the Kiwis are worse racists than the saffies and now this  ;D

feel free to go back   :D
formerly Marc.com

firko

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2009, 12:53:34 pm »
Now now fellas....lets not start throwing rocks at each other.

TooFastTim

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2009, 01:15:38 pm »
Asasin: that was exactly the point I made in my subsequent post. The racism in SA was institutionized. Institutionized racism is social engineering and all social engineering will end in tears. Read further and hopefully you'll see my point. BTW I was bought into this country because I have skills that simply are not available in Aus. And please don't take an observation as a criticism I hate racism. It's one reason why I left SA.

Dave Mac: I think an example would be best illustrate why the saffies are leaving in droves. In SA the electrical power is provided by a quasi-state company called Eskom (nowadays it's called a lot of other names, none of which are complimentary). In 1997 the govt decreed that all levels if the workforce should represent the demographics of the country that is 10% white, 10% coloured/indian and 80% black. This included the professions like engineering. Problem was/is that there are very few black engineers for historical reasons (i.e. apartheids bantu education system where blacks were educated to be "the hewers of wood and the drawers of water"). Nonetheless Eskom forged ahead and, according the govts policy of affirmative action, replaced 80% of it's engineers with blacks. But the blacks they appointed weren't engineers. They were social workers, biblical studies graduates and, generally, "soft" graduates. The result was that there were no skills left to determine policy, so no investment in maintenance, no investment in new power stations and at the beginning of 2007 the whole thing turned to custard with the grid collapsing under the load. The result was that the country was bought to it's knees by continuous blackouts. Mines (60% of SAs GDP) closed by the score and the economy went into freefall. Eskom desperately attempted to lure back the engineers it had bounced but they'd left. Many having moved here. Eskom attempted to raise capital on the international money markets only to be downgraded by Moodys to extremely risky. In short Eskom and SA are stuffed.

The example above is typical of post independence Africa where ideaology was put ahead of practical considerations and the whole pattern of the govts actions in that country are eerily familar with the rest of Africa. That is why Saffies are leaving. The irony is that it is not the skilled Saffies that have been kicked out that will suffer but those poor people who are now denied sevices like electricity, clean water and other infrastructural neccessities that people in first world countries take for granted. The ex-pat Saffies move to those first world countries do, finally, get to carry on with their lives without all the crap that they've had to deal with for the past 30-40 years.

To imagine that every white Saffie is a rabid racist is simplistic. Many of whom voted in a referendum to dismantle apartheid (which was failing anyway). Most were sick to death of the instutionised racism and defending it and wanted nothing more than to get on with their lives.

Geraldo, I agree. NZ does look afer the Maoris and PI's very well and generally the relationships are very good. But in my small circle of friends the venom directed towards those groups was surprising. And that group was thoroughly middle class.

On my point that we all harbour predjudices to some degree or other: our primary purpose in life is to breed and to ensure that our genes are perpetuated. In order to achieve this we must protect and nurture our immediate family. This requirement ripples out to extended family our neighbourhood, our circle of friends etc. Anybody outside these grouping is viewed with suspicion. Hence an inbuilt predjudice towards those who are different to us . As I mentioned earlier the evil is on acting on these predjudices. Whether that action takes the form of unwelcome name calling (e.g. wogs etc) or systematic brutilization (gangs walking the streets beating up pakistanis) is irrelevent. It's all the same thing, just a matter of degree.

Reading the posts about the Cronulla riots. It seems to me that the blame can be ascribed to politicians who were too PC to send in the plod to tell the (unassimillated) little pricks to "move on" before it all got ugly. They didn't and it did.

Dave mac (again), it's not that racism is rife in Aus. It's present. But it is in all societies. BTW sorry I missed your second call last week we had to shoot out for dinner.


Offline VMX247

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2009, 03:30:50 pm »
We all just  got back from a few laps on the local track and stopped in town to check out the new
WOK IN A BOX....the Asians have arrived in the country  ;D
This will get the town talkin for a few week.. ;D
Noodles are yummie and HOT might put CD6 cooks to shame.  :P
cheers
oh yer and I asked around if anyone knew what a SKIP was...A:::Kangaroo and large rubbish bin ,was all I got.   ;D
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 05:02:58 pm by VMX247 »
Best is in the West !!

Offline lyle2212

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2009, 03:45:22 pm »
Tis truly interesting TO FAST TIM ,on how you can even begin to compare our Racism in Australia to that of South Africa. There is only one country that outshone SA when it came to Racism and that was Germany during Hitlers day. Bet you didn,t know that former prime minister Botha spent a fortune financing a Laboratory that for 20 years tried to develope a gene that would render the SA black sterile! .... Racism,aparthied call it what you will, has been bred into the white SA since the Dutch and English first colonised the place... I work in the mining industry in Australia where a lot of white SA,s are now employed with positions high up on the ladder. My job is hands on, Crane driving, rigging ,etc and when it is required I get covered in shit now and then ,and get very dirty. As one Good ol, SA white boy said to me last week when I was sweating like a pig and covered in dirt " Back in SA we would  get the blacks to do that" ... Well that little comment speaks a life time and thousand words to me...

Offline Lozza

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2009, 04:08:56 pm »
Tim the flip side of your arguement is a hell of a lot of SA white's got very good jobs because of their race, and most times the only reason the business's were successful was being able to ride on the back of their basicaly slave labour force.

One major contributor to the Cronulla riots was Alan Jones he spent a full week whipping up hysteria before it, which basicaly breeched about a dozen paper tiger 'code of conduct' rules, but being the tricky shit he is, he refrained from making racist remarks himself(would have landed him in big trouble), just let listeners do that for him.

I'd agree with DJ as I have spent sometime in Belfast, and as a rule  it was OK to hate whom ever you wanted to, for whatever reason you feel justifies your hatred.To me that seems to be the undercurrent today, just plain hatred. 
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mainline

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2009, 05:54:14 pm »
does anyone else love the irony of arguing about which race are the biggest racists ;D ;D ;D

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TooFastTim

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Re: Somehow I don't think she will be called to give evidence
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2009, 06:43:56 pm »
Lyle, like Asasin you've fallen into the trap of seeing what you want to see, not reading what I wrote. I made a clear distinction between institutionized racism and predjudice. I am not comparing the systematic racism that was present in SA with the predjudices that are present in Aus or NZ or any other multicultural country for that matter. What I am saying is that predjudice is everywhere.

Lozza, saying that Saffies got jobs or opportunities because of their colour is a simplification. When I was 10 my parents considered emigration from the UK to either SA or Aus. Had they have chosen Aus there is no reason I would have turned out any different to what I turned out to be as a result of the SA education system because of my upbringing and background.

With a large population of unskilled labour on which it could draw the salaries were low. This is simple economics. Large supply equals low price. Curiously the mines drew much of their labour from outside SA where those people had been "emancipated". The salaries in SA, low as they were, were still higher than those they could command in their own countries.

The idea that whites in SA have a very high standard of living is false. It was, in the '70's not very different to standards of living in Aus. But it was limited to the whites.

Apartheids greatest crime was (in my opinion) the denial of opportunites to people who may have wished to join the western world (for want of a better expression). That is, to gain an education and join the middle classes. Curiously it was Smuts, not the apartheid govt, that denied them this opportunity in 1925. It was this act (following the miners strike where the miners demanded that the blacks be limited to manual labour) that, in my opinion, sealed that countries fate. By condemning the blacks in SA to a life in poverty they also ensured that their population growth rates would be high (poverty and high population growth rates go hand in hand). A large population of poor people is a recipe for civil unrest.

Had SA not denied the blacks those opportunities a number of things would have happened, firstly the black population growth rate would have slowed down considerably, second, because of greater human resources, the economic growth rate would have been higher, leading, in turn, to a slower population growth rate. I mentioned earlier that apartheid was economic suicide. This is why. But this is all conjecture.

Oh yeah Lyle: I was well aware of Wouter Bassons experiments.

Just to re-iterate, I was not, in my original posting in this thread, drawing a comparison between the institutionized racism that was present in SA to that in Aus or NZ but (in jest and probably poor taste) comparing the predjudices shared between those countries.