What are we doing wrong in NSW?

[DG 26]

G'day all
I rode 8 Heaven events last year and had a great time every one was friendly and helpful
If you want to ride and have fun come along . there are MA rules to follow at any meeting.
if every one helps out flaging etc the meeting runs well every one has fun ,if you sit there and winge/expect every thing to be done for you events like these will not happen?
I raced at Nowra last year with 150+ entries the meeting was stopped half way through to get more people to flag with people/parents sitin around reading books & complaning about the stopage?
YOU ONLY GET OUT OF SPORT?LIFE WHAT YOU PUT IN
get out and enjoy the ride
Cheers
DG 26 

[Snowy 76]

Distance between events definitey has a efect on numbers . not much any club can do about that?

[L.Ron.Pursang]

I've been around VMX since 1986 and have a reasonable idea of what the sport is about.
The reason VMX hasn't progressed in NSW as much as it has in Victoria and Queensland is that there's too many gunnas and whingers and not enough doers and positive thinkers. If I had 10 bob for every great idea that "will change vintage motocross for ever"  that wasn't followed up by the instigator moving quickly into the background, waiting for someone else to do the hard yards, I'd be living in Point Piper and playing polo with Jaimie Packer.

[magoo]

I said from the outset that this was / is not an attack on anyone or club and i stand by that. One problem is the inability of people to differentiate between constructive debate and criticism. It has been a habit of people to attack anyone who asks a legitimate question to shut them down. Again, I'm not having a go at anyone.
I am aware Dennis that it is way more difficult to run meetings in NSW partly due to the Speedway act and having to deal with the Department of Sport and Recreation. Also lack of tracks, though Dargle and Oran Park (yes, it's still open)are close by Sydney. Flaggies is another issue which I touched on before. There are 2 clubs running vintage only meeting with Penrith and Heaven and Manly did a couple of Vinduros last year as well so it's unfair to start attacking one club, or any club for that matter.
Back to my original question, why, well over 120 riders at the first Viper meeting, 130 riders at Coles Creek, which I might add is a fair drive from Brisbane and other than the CRC, any normal club day wind up with 60 or 70. And it is fair to a degree to compare clubs / States as we are supplying exactly the same product with different results. Why?
As for the closed pit thing Mark, they dropped it a couple of years ago. I followed up on the ruling and the fact is it is NOT an MNSW / MA ruling but one that can be put in place by the Steward on the day if he sees fit.
And Firko, once again, you're 100% right, again.
P.S. I just noticed your angry emoticons Dennis, don't get angry with me for asking a question, and yes, I'm on the Classic Commission in NSW so I do my bit as we all should in another way. And you are right when you say there are people who sit in the shade whinging and doing nothing, there always has been and always will be.

[husky61]

Your right Mark

To many idea's men , blowhards or gunna's or what ever you wish to call them. Always moaning about numbers , MA this , flaggy that , this tracks to rough , this jumps to high ,its to dusty , its to muddy . back stabbing their clubs / officials  , talking up their unlimited abilities at every possible chance etc etc , yet never making a positive contribution to their club or sport.

Lack of quality facilities is probably major contributing factor.

It is what it is , so get used to it .

[Wombat]

Just on the flaggies question, I notice the QVMX events usually employ the local SES unit.
I'm sure they pay/donate for these people but there's no lack of numbers.
Is that part of the problem - relying on volunteers to do the flagging?

[magoo]

Shit, I've been put in my place. I'll get used to it and shut up from now on. Sorry.

[Graeme M]

I dunno, I think it's a fair question.

My take - I don't think it's due to the history of HEAVEN (and this thread wasn't meant as having a go at HEAVEN) nor to the whingers/gunnas/not doers.

Victoria has several vintage clubs who hold regular race meetings all over the central/southern part of the state. You could be assured of a ride most months at one of these clubs and there's a good chance that a race will be on near your home. Qld is similar in that it has two clubs in the SE with several tracks from the Sunshine Coast to the border. Again, there's a good chance there's a race near you. Even Coles Creek, 1.5 hours drive from Brisbane, has the benefit of being slap bang in the middle of an area that was a real part of the dirtbike scene in the 70s/80s. I'll bet you that the demographic of riders at a Coles Creek round is different to a Tambourine round.

NSW however has only a couple of tracks in regular use - Canberra and Bulahdelah. We do have Clarence too. Canberra and Clarence are modern tracks and I think that doesn't help. I know I am not that keen on riding my 75 RM125 around those tracks. I can do it, and I have fun, but I do look longingly at the photos from VCM, QVMX and BMCC.

Equally, these couple of tracks aren't really well situated. Bulahdelah is a long drive for south coast, Canberra or Snowy Mountains area riders. Canberra is better for those, but then it's a fair haul for Sydney and north coast riders.

I know some of those events are two days, but I am not sure that really helps as it's not always easy for people to get two days off regularly to go to a dirtbike race. I can barely do that for an event here in Canberra.

So, my opinion? Tracks too far away from the majority of riders, tracks that don't suit the majority of riders. I reckon that if a club held a good natural terrain grasstrack twice a year at a track within 1.5 hours of Sydney on either the Canberra or South Coast side, made it a one day event on a Sunday, and guaranteed the riders plenty of rides, and then got out there and promoted it, you'd get a lot more turn up. I wonder how a vintage event at Coopers Gully would go, for example.

As for HEAVEN, to some extent I think that 60-70 riders might be about it for now. I would like to see a greater effort to promote HEAVEN as a club - to that extent a more personal touch on the website, more regular website updates and maybe a newsletter would all help. But I am conscious it's hard to find people to do those things.

PS: By the way, I just thought I'd go on record and say that having ridden vintage events in both Qld and NSW, and also having attended several Classic Dirts, I think the HEAVEN events are as good as any, so I don't think Dennis need feel that this thread is knocking all the great work put in by the club. Magoo's question was more about what is needed to get more riders to whatever vintage events are on around this way.

[suzuki43]

Heres my twenty cents...
Up until two years ago I was a semi regular NSW Heaven member and I raced in events from around 2000-2007 before returning back to NZ.
Therefore I am not afraid of retribution from some of the usual suspects,which is why when this topic comes up, most NSW racers stay quiet for fear of revenge and or persecution....face it boys you know thats fact.
I personally think that the issues halting NSW VMX relate to the folowing:

1)Geograhical barriers i.e. Lake  Glenbawn is a good 5 hour drive from Sydney.
2)Bad Blood;a lot of real good buggars quit the sport because they were abused by a certain unnamed person, who perhaps had the best of intentions, but basically insulted people on race weekends trying to enforce power/rules.When you marry this with the shit stirring and general crap that went on back in the days of Mark and Magoo being at the wheel, a lot of people switched off.As an aside I still kick myself that I didnt stand up and try and defend Mark and Magoo, who really helped make a difference along with Brad and the Glove etc.
3) Split Rounds;I also think that the whole race day experience in NSW is hampered by having to split the racing into a up to pre 78 round and then the up to Pre 85 round.There is far too much down time and not enough racing, so when you factor the expense of either buying a MA season licence or day licences plus petrol accomodation etc for most rounds it is just not worthwhile.

How do we fix it?
I believe that more effort should be placed in trying to find tracks closer to Sydney and look to get independent flaggies so the split round format is canned.Some of the good buggars I have mentioned also need to get over it and come back into the fold.Egos need to be put to one side and everyone needs to get together and get it sorted.

Anyway I hope you guys can work it out,but luckily for me,I am back in Gods own country, where ego free laid back racing (and lots of it) is the rule and not the exception.
Cheers
Craig Taylor

[L.Ron.Pursang]

Well written Craig, I couldn't agree more.
I'm not a member of HEAVEN so I can't comment on the current officers but have observed and have heared from others that they're on the right path to rid the PR damage left behind by previous club management. There have been a lot of mistakes and political crap in the past and sadly some of it sticks. Let's hope the current good people at the helm can avoid the mistakes made by their predeccessors and finally rid the club of that bad ju ju.

The other club dabbling in vintage in NSW is Penrith club and quite frankly these days they're just going through the motions. The current executive have been at the helm since I resigned as secretary and president in 1993 and I'm certain they've had enough. Even though I'm not the most popular person in Len and Christine Tickners christmas card list, I must admit that they've given fantastic service to not only Penrith club but to Nepean Motorsports Club, MNSW and MA over the last 15 years. Unfortunately the effort in running a successful Kawasaki dealership, MNSW and Penrith club must take up a lot of their time and something must suffer from all of that involvement which to my observation seems to be Penrith Club itself. In my time in the seat we ran three or four vintage motocrosses and three or four vintage dirt tracks per year, usually with over 100 entries per event. For the first few years of the Tickner tenure that race scedule and popularity continued but as the years progressed their enthusiasm faded in proportion along with the entries to the point that motocross was dropped from the program a few years ago and there are now far fewer vintage dirt track promotions at Nepean.

For any venture to stay fresh and progressive there has to be an influx of new ideas and enthusiasm. Being at the helm for 18 years has drained the current Penrith executive of what enthusiasm they may have had in the beginning. It's time for new blood to take control of the proud old club and steer it back to where it was in the mid 90s, the best vintage club on the east coast. All clubs have their ideas men and bedroom entrepeneurs but when the call is on for them to back up their ideas and verbal enthusiasm with actual hard work, these punters disappear into the mist, only to emerge when the same old hard workers have picked up the shovel again. Penrith club is a victim of that very situation, the Tickners, Bill Pengilly and the other small band of stalwarts continuing to carry on doing the tough work while the majority of the members enjoy the fruits of their labour without having to contribute. For vintage racing to progress and for Penrith club to remain a viable promoter of vintage racing, new  enthusiastic people have to nominate for positions at the next AGM. It's time for fresh minds prepared to do the hard work to take control of the club and start reviving the clubs vintage racing promotions that saw Penrith at the top of the heap and the sport booming only a short decade ago.

Unfortunately as I said earlier, there are more gunnas and whingers than actual doers so I sadly predict that the same old same old will remain at Penrith club and vintage racing will remain stagnant because of it.

[VMX247]

These same old committee die hard's can be burnt out and obsessive people across VMX Australia.
Which can seem/appear and is very threatening and off putting for all the new people to entry.
This is where you have to stand up just like the Anzacs and be counted and have some b.....
Fight the good fight for VMX 
cheers

[bazza]

Craig good to have you back in NZ- we do suffer with 7 meets in 7 months on rolling green grass and some tracks as far as 40km away,bugger

[Hornet]

give it to them VMX 247  . As flaggies need nore recognition, without us , there is no racing 

[Rosco400]

It should also be noted that the Hunter Motorcycle club is conducting vintage dirt track and has formed a vintage sub committee. It is currently/predominately VDT with about a dozen members fronting up to about 4 rounds and riding in conjunction with junior meeting.

It is good fun and for the Hunter riders, is only half hour north of Newcastle at Barleigh ranch. We have been combining the riding pre 78 and pre 85 so lots of laps and nobody gives a rats arse where you come as all in good fun.

If you are interested in coming fo a ride and great day out come along.

[albrid-3]

l would like to see a State of origin, that each state has their riders team as a 4 man team, pick their colours, and class, and have a round in each state. and a grand price at the end of the series that will go to their club, which will be a sheild, ? and sponsore gifts will go to the winning team. points are added up at the last round.  open for ideas