Eligilibty scrutineer at the Nationals

[211kawasaki]

Hi Guys

as the eligilibty guy at the nationals I thought I would open up a Q&A thread if there are any questions; its safe to say that eligilibty will be enforced this year. In other words if its not right it wont pass.

Points of interest.

The CZ sproket issue is dead,

As is a 1975 CR125 in pre75, even if the rules do allow the 75 CR to compete in pre 78. Please dont bring your MX250B and enter it in pre 75 and dont enter your pre 75 bike in pre 78.

Pre 78 is the only class that is just for 75,76,77 bikes, none else.

No 1975 TMs in pre 75 race them in the pre 78 class.

There will always be a rider with a 78 front end on a 76 TT500 that the guy didnt know was a 78 front end, if you have one and you going to enter in pre 78 get a 77 front end. Its happened just about every year for 10 years - if there big forks ride in EVO.

If its a 75/76 KX250/400 with a modified rear end - dont bring it unless your entered in pre 78 and you have moved the shocks to the original positions.

MX series Yamahas should have pre 75 engines in the, a 78 DT motor or otherwise dosnt count as pre 75.

I will have the engine references to most bikes, not all but most. If its a follow on and its the exact same bike your fine.

Yes folks I have seen every one of these and lots more.

The Commission as scruteneers acts as a sub offical to the safety inspection, safety overules everything and the issues that relate to safety are not for the thread, my advice in this department is to read the GCRs now; not on the race day while trying to negociate a point you should have already known.

Dave T

[GMC]

Points of interest.

The CZ sproket issue is dead,

As is a 1975 CR125 in pre75, even if the rules do allow the 75 CR to compete in pre 78.

Good thread Dave, but can you clarify the 75 CR 125 issue please, are you saying it is or isn't allowed in pre 75???

[E74]

Points of interest.

The CZ sproket issue is dead,

As is a 1975 CR125 in pre75, even if the rules do allow the 75 CR to compete in pre 78.

Good thread Dave, but can you clarify the 75 CR 125 issue please, are you saying it is or isn't allowed in pre 75???

NO It's not allowed!!! because Red paint is much faster than Green paint and he has a forking big stick! (Not Dick)   
and a badge to The Commission as scruteneers acts as a sub offical of the official act of sub scuiteneers commisioning the act of sub scuteneering acting as the official that maked him super ooper dooper!

[VMX247]

be very very nice, this man has the power     


thank goodness we just run a pre 75 ,no complications..
S&A WA

[211kawasaki]

GMC
The 75 / 74 CR125 issue was around for a long while, the question of weather a CR125 with different fork tops, different pipe and an extra scavenge port  made it somehow so much different that it shouldnt compete in Pre 75. The decision was that as the red color made no difference, you could change the pipe anyway and the way the fork springs are retained were considered so minor that it should be able to compete in pre 75. The extra scavange port is internal and although you can make out a 75 barrel if you look carefully it also was considerd so minor as to not matter.

Remember that the Commission dosnt make the decision the states do and based on the respondants it was a majority agreement that the bike was as close a follow on model we have and pretty much the same then it should be considered legal pre75.

There is still some who (believe it or not) want to argue that the bike shouldnt be allowed pre75.
I take the view that most pre 75 bikes are in short supply and something this close to the 74 model should be eligible - where as say a pre 74 TM125 and a 75 TM125 are sufficently different in the frame / swing arm to exclude them.

211

[GMC]

Thanks for clearing that up Dave, I thought that was the case, it was just your wording confused me.

Cheers,
Geoff

[211kawasaki]

be very very nice, this man has the power     




The commission has no power, the states do. What the Commission does is to administer the requests for adjudication from the riders, clubs or states and formulate them into something that the state LCB can say yes or no to.

Its not about being nice to me; but after 21 years in VMX and 10 as the commission chair person Im trying to open a dialogue for any questions on eligibility that might assist the riders with their preparation for the National Championships.

211

[VMX247]

be very very nice, this man has the power     
The commission has no power, the states do. What the Commission does is to administer the requests for adjudication from the riders, clubs or states and formulate them into something that the state LCB can say yes or no to.
Its not about being nice to me; but after 21 years in VMX and 10 as the commission chair person Im trying to open a dialogue for any questions on eligibility that might assist the riders with their preparation for the National Championships.
211

ok ok ,I'm sorry .....fire away VMX people with your questions.
Alison

[Graeme M]

I haven't read the GCRs on this question, but I thought the 75 TM125 was identical to the 74? The 75 RM125M is a different beast for sure, but the TM? Surely the 75 would be a follow on?

[211kawasaki]

Graeme,
Lets look at the frame, the 75 TM250 is different at the top shock mount to the 74 and has a different swingarm. Total travel standard is 6.75 inches on the rear. Otherwise they are the same but its been determined that they are sufficently different from the 74 in this respect to exclude them from the pre 75 class.
Note; the build plate on the bike dosnt make it the model year, for example with the 75 model TM250 it was in production from September 1974 but was designated the 1975 model. The same arguement can be made for the MX250B, built late 74 but is the "designated" 1975 model and hence not pre75.

211

[yzhilly]

Good to see it out  there in black & white thanks dave .

[KB171]

Gday Dave .What would be the  the ruling on yz250-360b's ?

[Nathan S]

The CZ sproket issue is dead,

No 1975 TMs in pre 75 race them in the pre 78 class.

If its a 75/76 KX250/400 with a modified rear end - dont bring it unless your entered in pre 78 and you have moved the shocks to the original positions.

MX series Yamahas should have pre 75 engines in them, a 78 DT motor or otherwise dosnt count as pre 75.

Dave, not trying to be a smart-arse, but these points are really vague.

Only one of these affects me directly, but the others were just as confusing as helpful.

What's the story on CZ sprockets? Does the rivet vs bolt issue matter or not matter? Which era/model bikes does it apply to?

Are 75 TM125s OK as pre-75 bikes, or were you just talking about 75 TM250s?

Is a 76 KX250 with modified mounts and less than 9" of travel legal for pre-78 or not?

What about '75/76 DT250 engines fitted with a 74 head? Surely that's pre-75 legal? if not, why not?
And MX125Bs, DT175Bs, DT125Cs, etc - all should be follow-on bikes/engines?

[211kawasaki]

KB171
These bikes long ago were considered pre 75 legal, the problem for these bikes is that the rear suspension needs limiting, pretty much at scrutineering I will be looking to see the spacer in the shock. Pretty much in about 1994 these bikes were accepted and have been there ever since.

Was really suprised at Tas last year just how many YZs there were there, the most I have ever seen, hope to see a few this year.

211

[211kawasaki]

Nathan

was trying to give some examples of things I have seen, not everything to get the thread going.

To answer your question, all 1975 designated TM models have the same issues with the frame and the rule book doesnt consider them a follow-on therefore they are not OK for pre75.

The story with the CZ sproket is; some time ago it was considered that the wheel came with an integral sproket - pre70 CZ from memory, the decision was made to allow weld, rivet, bolt on etc to ensure that the sproket life of these machines didnt limit their life span and consign them to the back of the shed. There was a time when this wasnt the case and if the bike had anything other than an integral hub / sproket you could be knocked out.