Poll

Regarding allowing pre-90 racing:

I am a HEAVEN member and think it is a good idea.
18 (17.3%)
I am a HEAVEN member and I don't have a strong opinion.
3 (2.9%)
I am a HEAVEN member and I don't like it.
27 (26%)
I'm not a HEAVEN member, but I think it's a good idea.
37 (35.6%)
I'm not a HEAVEN member, but I think it is a bad idea
19 (18.3%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Author Topic: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?  (Read 56687 times)

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Offline vmx42

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #120 on: September 06, 2010, 12:17:38 pm »
they get the long races , the big jumps , the rough tracks to use their long travel  .

That is just the kind of stuff the average VMXer is trying to avoid.  ;)
When a woman says "What?", it's not because she didn't hear you, she's giving you the chance to chance to change what you said.

Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here…

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Offline Stevo17

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #121 on: September 06, 2010, 12:42:49 pm »
Where do 85 and 86 model bikes fit?  They are in a different league to 88 and 89 models...

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #122 on: September 06, 2010, 12:45:38 pm »
.... the Evo and Pre '85 classes are currently a country mile from reaching their potential. Theoretically I reckon that those classes should be presenting full grids in all capacities and age groups.

I think that's an unrealistic expectation. We don't see consistantly full grids in ANY class nowdays.

The timing of a class' introduction is also significant - if we leave it too long then the target audience grows too old to achieve the participation levels of the early 1990s. We made this mistake with pre-85 and have already let (what would have been) the best years of pre-90 slip past us.

Also worth noting that VMX had a high-profile in the mainstream dirt bike media at the same time that VMX was at its strongest. If we need to grow the sport, then that's the first thing to improve.
There's zero doubt that VMX mag has been brilliant for us 'serious' old dirt bikers - but its existance has also meant that we didn't notice/lament the loss of regular exposure in the mainstream bike media. In reality, that loss has meant that we've disappeared under the radar for the average punter.
I reckon that every trip I've made with a VMX bike on the ute/trailer, someone always comes to me and has a chat about old bikes and how much fun they had on their old [whatever]. When you mention the whole VMX scene, you're usually met with some apprehension, because you're introducing a whole new concept to them - most people need to be familiar with a concept before they make the leap.
I have no delusions that every single one of the people I've chatted to at various servos/Maccas/traffic lights would become active VMXers, but even if you got 1% of them actively involved, then the scene would be a hell of a lot stronger.

I agree with most of what you've said, Firko, but I think that it's relevance to pre-90 is very limited.

In response to Dan's figure of 5% of the membership owning pre-90 bikes, I wonder what percentage have (and use!) pre-70 bikes? If its less than 5%, then you'd have to argue that pre-70 should be combined with pre-75 and replaced with pre-90...  ;)
And remember that pre-70 has a class to race them in - everyone who currently owns a pre-90 in NSW has bought despite the fact that there's not a class to use it in. This should say a lot about the enthusiasm that's out there for them.

Wasp, what's a 15 year old vehicle got to do with it? Even the very newest pre-90 bike is about to turn 22, and the oldest are now old enough to get histroic rego in most states.


(Edit: Fast typing is shit typing, apparently).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 04:51:39 pm by Nathan S »
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Offline Dan-166

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #123 on: September 06, 2010, 01:36:22 pm »
Nath,
Just to clarify, 5% of members actively seeking to get Pre 90 into the race program, not 5% of members that own Pre 90 bikes. Sorry to be anal about that  but I got myself into trouble on this forum before due to my comments being taken out of context!
I am sure that there is more than 5% of current members that own a Pre 90 bike but I do not have the figures for this. Cheers.
BTW are you coming to Canberra? Cheers.
Dan

Offline BAHNZY

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #124 on: September 06, 2010, 01:54:42 pm »
My opinion and it’s just that an opinion is that if an organiser was to run 5/6 events on a revised one day Classic Dirt style format that included all the MA GCR disciplines it would be an instant hit. Problem is that hosting clubs and organisations don’t profit from these types of events and equally tough is the ability to secure venues to ride and race at. Clubs such as Ravenswood, Corner Inlet and a few others have local council caveats on them that only allow a set amount of weekends for them to run events. By the time the club puts aside enough days to run a club championship along with a handful of club practice days there is little or no days available to run an event outside of their own requirements. For the people that think it’s tough now, it will only get worse from here on in, one only needs to look at the current Barrabool situation to see where it’s going and that track is co-owned by the BMCC, the local council, the state government and MA.

I don’t know where QVMX and Heaven are at, but I know that a lot of ex VIPER riders that don’t compete any more, yet still have their bikes with no intention of selling them. In fact when there are events like BBB, CD and practice days they are there and more than motivated to have a ride, but not race. Personally I still enjoy the racing that VIPER offers, but I equally enjoy that atmosphere that CD and BBB offer and unfortunately I can’t afford to do both so I have to pick and choose.

Then there are the bikes. I was speaking to a good mate who also happens to be an executive committee member of a handful of superannuation plans and he advised that some of the well to do are pulling a percentage out of super funds and investing in collectible motorcycles particularly 50’s, 60’s & 70’s Euro & British road bikes. He said that one guy had converted $100K cash into $250K in less than 5 years and the collection and $’s increase year on year. Bikes rather than cars are more sought after apparently as they are easy to move around and they take up far less room than a car.

Whilst a Pre 78 or earlier bike is not an early British or Euro bike there are a lot of parallels that can be drawn. I am sure that we all know of more than a handful of people that have a “collection” of bikes yet race only one, or perhaps don’t even race at all, in fact I am quite possibly one of them myself.

Whilst I don’t specifically agree with the old blokes and on bikes principle, I certainly see where some of the VMX community are coming from. There is no doubt that a lot of the younger riders don’t give the amount of respect that they should to both their bikes and their “older” competitors but it is what it is. This was one of the things that I was glad to see will be changed where age classes can be run in the Pre85 & Pre90 races.

In general what I don’t see is the VMX community reacting in a timely & think outside the box  manner  to the changing status of the sport, particularly when the economy is not so good and people are looking for the best value that they can get out of their racing/bike budget.
Rod (BAHNZY) Bahn

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #125 on: September 06, 2010, 05:02:08 pm »
Nath,
Just to clarify, 5% of members actively seeking to get Pre 90 into the race program, not 5% of members that own Pre 90 bikes. Sorry to be anal about that  but I got myself into trouble on this forum before due to my comments being taken out of context!
I am sure that there is more than 5% of current members that own a Pre 90 bike but I do not have the figures for this. Cheers.
BTW are you coming to Canberra? Cheers.
Dan

Cool, fair enough.
If you're right that more than 5% own them, then surely that's further evidence that there should be room in the club for them?
I wonder if anyone owns a pre-90 bike and doesn't want to be able to race it with HEAVEN?

Will be there to say g'day, but not racing.
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Offline VMX247

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #126 on: September 06, 2010, 05:14:46 pm »
We don't see consistantly full grids in ANY class nowdays.

I thought Firko's post explain the reason behind that...
The reason why in my opinion is due to the 5%  ::) that's as many pre65 I see on a club day. ;D
cheers Alison
Best is in the West !!

All Things 414

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #127 on: September 07, 2010, 04:03:28 pm »
I find this whole "you can't buy a good Evo bike" argument thing a bit hollow. This bike didn't even make it far past its starting bid of $2500.00

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320583795330&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:AU:1123

and it looks like good value if you got it for around 4G. That's still a cheap, competitive bike and you'd probably be quicker on it than on an open bike. Lots of Evo 250's come up for sale with little interest. ??? Maybe the argument should be "there's no really, really, cheap Evo bikes for sale anymore...."
After riding a few Evo 250's lately I've got a real 'boner' for one. Lots of fun and very quick  ;).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 04:05:34 pm by All Things 414 »

Offline VMX247

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #128 on: September 07, 2010, 04:17:26 pm »
I find this whole "you can't buy a good Evo bike" argument thing a bit hollow. This bike didn't even make it far past its starting bid of $2500.00
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320583795330&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:AU:1123
and it looks like good value if you got it for around 4G. That's still a cheap, competitive bike and you'd probably be quicker on it than on an open bike. Lots of Evo 250's come up for sale with little interest. ??? Maybe the argument should be "there's no really, really, cheap Evo bikes for sale anymore...."
After riding a few Evo 250's lately I've got a real 'boner' for one. Lots of fun and very quick  ;).


That just ticks another box for Shoeys theory for someone to get up and  create a club.
I believe a Pre90 only club,someone that's not too keen on the other era's and go the rat  for pre90 only club.
kiss really  8)
cheers A
Best is in the West !!

All Things 414

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #129 on: September 07, 2010, 04:20:09 pm »
What? You've lost me there...... ???

Offline VMX247

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #130 on: September 07, 2010, 04:28:54 pm »
What? You've lost me there...... ???

Do a shoey post search- back a few pages  ;D
cheers A
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All Things 414

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #131 on: September 07, 2010, 04:30:12 pm »
Fug that. I'm too lazy........ :(

Offline VMX247

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #132 on: September 07, 2010, 04:35:30 pm »
Fug that. I'm too lazy........ :(

and honest  :D...
cheers A

page 5 & 6 are interesting reads from Magoo,Nathan S and Hoony..you will be  catering for a different era of riders as well-faster and younger.  8)
cheers A
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 04:53:11 pm by VMX247 »
Best is in the West !!

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #133 on: September 07, 2010, 05:05:42 pm »
That just ticks another box for Shoeys theory for someone to get up and  create a club.
I believe a Pre90 only club,someone that's not too keen on the other era's and go the rat  for pre90 only club.

Why does pre-90 have to 'prove itself' by meeting standards that no other single era can meet?

This side of the island, even a pre-75-only (not including the older eras) club would die before it left the nest - the NSW pre-75 register didn't even hatch...

When you cut through the noise, the main/real arguments against pre-90 are:
1. Its hard to fit another class into the race programme.
2. They're just like moderns/I don't relate to them/I don't like them.
3. We should be concentrating our efforts to build the sport in other ways.

Frankly (and I'm not wanting to offend people who I like and respect here), #2 is not relevant - if you don't like it then don't enter that class, #3 is very valid but misses the point of why people want to race pre-90s (its not about building the sport as such, its about meeting a demand which does exist).

This leaves the logistical issue only - which hardly constitutes a solid case against.
I also note that HEAVEN found space in the programme to seperate the pre-75 and pre-78 125s at the start of the year, yet the same space is impossible to find for an all-in pre-90 race?



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Offline Shaun G

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #134 on: September 07, 2010, 05:31:14 pm »
That just ticks another box for Shoeys theory for someone to get up and  create a club.
I believe a Pre90 only club,someone that's not too keen on the other era's and go the rat  for pre90 only club.

This leaves the logistical issue only - which hardly constitutes a solid case against.
I also note that HEAVEN found space in the programme to seperate the pre-75 and pre-78 125s at the start of the year, yet the same space is impossible to find for an all-in pre-90 race?


Spot on Nathan.

Why can't an all in pre '90 race substitute one of the many Junior races each round?

Anyway it is looking more likely that the "let pre '90 stand alone" proponents will get their way soon.

I have recently heard some promising news regarding a soon to be run event close to Sydney which will include an up to pre '90 class. So all you Evo, Pre '85 and Pre '90 riders stand by for further details.

Cheers
Shaun