Pre-90 for HEAVEN?

[VMX247]

[

Why does pre-90 have to 'prove itself' by meeting standards that no other single era can meet?
They don't have to do prove anything..they would just be better off wouldn't they on there own, with a whole new group/regulations/rules/concept etc.Our single era seems to be doing ok(yes I know pre65 are collectors items now days-but there is a few around)
its just got to be implemented by someone ....anyone....

This side of the island, even a pre-75-only (not including the older eras) club would die before it left the nest - the NSW pre-75 register didn't even hatch...
maybe because the past committee/clubs (no one in particular) allowed other class's to come in and not let the pre75 also stand alone pre85 only build on itself....is this not happening now with pre90 ...no room...start from scratch and build on it.

When you cut through the noise, the main/real arguments against pre-90 are:
1. Its hard to fit another class into the race programme.
2. They're just like moderns/I don't relate to them/I don't like them.
3. We should be concentrating our efforts to build the sport in other ways.

Frankly (and I'm not wanting to offend people who I like and respect here), #2 is not relevant true - if you don't like it then don't enter that class, #3 is very valid but misses the point of why people want to race pre-90s (its not about building the sport as such, its about meeting a demand which does exist). Hasn't this statement answered the question for you...building ...demand..

This leaves the logistical issue only - which hardly constitutes a solid case against.
I also note that HEAVEN found space in the programme to seperate the pre-75 and pre-78 125s at the start of the year, yet the same space is impossible to find for an all-in pre-90 race?
Don't know about Heaven one off race schedule..but what the heck are we all going to do when it comes to running a Nats with pre90...more confusion..No one seems to want to put there hand up to even consider starting up a pre90 club of all the people over there is there not one. 

gotta go.. running out of time

[ricakk]

Anything that gets more people at events on bikes has got be good, it would get my vote

[BAHNZY]

In the CMX & CDT Commission Meeting Minutes from the 8th & 9th of May 2010 there was a notation that Pre90 be included in the MOM, GCR's.
Is any one aware of any action on this other than the "Brings correct rule description to the GCR’s" comment in the minutes?

[Dan-166]

I agree Rick, but the people ( I don't mean to offend anyone by this ) who want Pre 90 included in the race program need to get behind it and make the case for it within the HEAVEN Club, follow the process and make it happen.
Dan

[mick25]

I agree there dan, if persons want  pre 90 they have to stand up to the plate and pitch in and make it happen

[shoey]

Dont go riding your 250 with a boner you could hurt yourself or worse still if you crash you might scare the shit out of the St Johns ambo attendant

[ted]

As a paid up and active Heaven member i put forward a motion for Oakeshot and Windsor to come to Fairbarn Park this Saturday and determine the fate of Pre 90 in NSW.

[Nathan S]

They don't have to do prove anything..they would just be better off wouldn't they on there own, with a whole new group/regulations/rules/concept etc.Our single era seems to be doing ok ....
its just got to be implemented by someone ....anyone....

But why? Why re-invent the wheel? Why damage our club, by 'stealing' (or attemtping to steal) Evo and pre-85 from it, to possibly make a pre-90 club viable?

The WA model has clearly worked well for WA. With the benefit of hindsight, we all would have done well to follow it - but it hasn't happened like that over here, and its too late to put the genie back in the bottle.
So we're at a point where HEAVEN runs great events that are supported by its members, but no particular era/group of eras are strong enough to form their own club.
Funnily enough, HEAVEN was originally more focussed on the later eras anyhow (have a look at the articles in VMX from the early days), but that's shifted over time.

Honestly, I think two clubs has a lot of merit - I reckon a new pre-78 club, and HEAVEN for Evo+ is the way to go - but the problem is that its a huge risk, because you face the very real possibility of moving away having one club that does a decent job of catering to all eras, and ending up with two clubs that aren't viable.
It makes more sense to have pre-90 live under the HEAVEN wing.

[VMX247]

quote:Nathan S
But why? Why re-invent the wheel? Why damage our club, by 'stealing' (or attemtping to steal) Evo and pre-85 from it, to possibly make a pre-90 club viable?

You can't stop members from going to were ever they want to go..you have to market what you got or what you can give/offer to your members--you know the saying... kill or be killed.  
Not re-invent..starting something new and looking into the future,the so called new pre90 club could introduce/cater for pre95 come 2015-2020..Obviously the strength is not there yet for the pre90 to create their own, as stated below

The WA model has clearly worked well for WA. With the benefit of hindsight, we all would have done well to follow it - but it hasn't happened like that over here, and its too late to put the genie back in the bottle.
So we're at a point where HEAVEN runs great events that are supported by its members, but no particular era/group of eras are strong enough to form their own club.
Funnily enough, HEAVEN was originally more focussed on the later eras anyhow (have a look at the articles in VMX from the early days), but that's shifted over time.

Honestly, I think two clubs has a lot of merit - I reckon a new pre-78 club, and HEAVEN for Evo+ is the way to go - but the problem is that its a huge risk, because you face the very real possibility of moving away having one club that does a decent job of catering to all eras, and ending up with two clubs that aren't viable. Club faith and protocol prohibits me from commenting   
It makes more sense to have pre-90 live under the HEAVEN wing.Bests wish's with pre90- hope the grids fill fast over the next couple of years

[/quote]
Pleasure chatting with you NathanS
cheers yours in preserving all bikes 

[Nathan S]

You can't stop members from going to were ever they want to go..you have to market what you got or what you can give/offer to your members--you know the saying... kill or be killed.  
Not re-invent..starting something new and looking into the future,the so called new pre90 club could introduce/cater for pre95 come 2015-2020..Obviously the strength is not there yet for the pre90 to create their own, as stated below

The thing is that ALL of the vocal pre-90 guys also ride older eras, and are all mostly-happy members of HEAVEN - we don't want to see our club killed!
I guess it like a relationship: There's always things that the other person does that irritate you, but they're not enough to make you want to leave the relationship... This doesn't mean that the relationship cannot be improved.

[VMX247]

You can't stop members from going to were ever they want to go..you have to market what you got or what you can give/offer to your members--you know the saying... kill or be killed.  
Not re-invent..starting something new and looking into the future,the so called new pre90 club could introduce/cater for pre95 come 2015-2020..Obviously the strength is not there yet for the pre90 to create their own, as stated below

The thing is that ALL of the vocal pre-90 guys also ride older eras, and are all mostly-happy members of HEAVEN - we don't want to see our club killed!
I guess it like a relationship: There's always things that the other person does that irritate you, but they're not enough to make you want to leave the relationship... This doesn't mean that the relationship cannot be improved.

I'm all for a happy relationship,though we are from two different vmx sides of the country.
cheers A

[Shaun G]

The thing is that ALL of the vocal pre-90 guys also ride older eras, and are all mostly-happy members of HEAVEN - we don't want to see our club killed!
I guess it like a relationship: There's always things that the other person does that irritate you, but they're not enough to make you want to leave the relationship... This doesn't mean that the relationship cannot be improved.

Nathan you've got it right again. The last thing I would want to see happen is the demise of HEAVEN. However I fear this is going to happen. Whether through competition from a new Pre '90 club or, what I think is more likely, natural attrition as the older classes fade away without a succession plan of adding newer classes attracting the next generation of Classic riders.

When HEAVEN started there was already a vibrant Pre '75 movement in NSW. Just ask Firko. HEAVEN was introduced to cater for guy's that were into those new fangled bikes that woop up the track spoiling it for everyone else. As time went on it seemed that the Pre '75 movement (read Penrith MCC) began to become more focussed on Dirt Track racing. And for a while there HEAVEN and Penrith ran mutual events to cater for all. HEAVEN even had it's own Dirt Track club championship. Over time the NSW scene has morphed into what it is now. HEAVEN for CMX and Penrith for Vintage Dirt Track. This situation works and I'm not saying we should change it.

However.

Pre '90 bikes are over 20 years old. The guy's that are most likely to be attracted to these bikes are 35-40 years old. It doesn't take a Rocket Surgeon to realise that these are the future of CMX.

In my opinion we as a group need to look at the future and decide whether HEAVEN should direct its marketing efforts into the older classes (which is fine by me if that's what the membership wants) or try to attract the younger classic mx enthusiast by introducing later year cut-offs. By introducing a Pre '90 all in class, which in reality is only one race per round, anyone with a pre '90 only would obviously feel that to get value they would need and older bike as well. Perhaps even a Pre '75 

Cheers
Shaun

[czeck]

Hello
This just goes on and on. Can I bring you guys back to basics. About 2007 there was a vote to change the club constitution and this included the fact that the club would promote up to Pre 85 Only.  Now its in.
Like I said before, if you want to change something you need to become involved.
Turn up at the meetings, speak to the committee members, bring your pre 90 bike to practice. Action is what is required for a change. But all I have heard up to now is that the committe should do something.
If you want a change get together, speak to other members and move a motion at the next annual general meeting for the constition to be changed.
Its up to the members.
Rgds
Carl Blecher

[Shaun G]

All good points Carl.

Could you please tell me where I am able to access the current club constitution? I want to ensure that a motion when put forward is within the parameters set out by the constitution.

Is there plans to hold a general meeting this weekend at Canberra? If so at what date and time?

Cheers
Shaun

[czeck]

Hi
It should be available on the HVMX web site. You will need to log in. If you cannot find it ring me at work and I will organise a copy for you. I have a copy handy and can fax it if you want.
And, are you coming to Canberra.
rgds