Poll

Regarding allowing pre-90 racing:

I am a HEAVEN member and think it is a good idea.
18 (17.3%)
I am a HEAVEN member and I don't have a strong opinion.
3 (2.9%)
I am a HEAVEN member and I don't like it.
27 (26%)
I'm not a HEAVEN member, but I think it's a good idea.
37 (35.6%)
I'm not a HEAVEN member, but I think it is a bad idea
19 (18.3%)

Total Members Voted: 70

Author Topic: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?  (Read 56751 times)

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magoo

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2007, 01:57:49 pm »
You read it dead right Gezza my boy.

Offline Noel

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2007, 07:19:18 pm »
Thanks guys , appreciate your support
But why would anyone want to be president of this rabble :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
stick your head up and someone starts kicking it ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
isn't that how it goes :D :D :D :D
Noel
now what was the subject??? ::)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 07:43:46 pm by Noel »

Offline Noel

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2007, 08:01:43 pm »
Having just read Gezza's last post indicates that maybe I had It at the beginning,
lots of the participants in this sport don't really know the full story, Including Me
find out whats going on then you can actively participate.
Cheers
Noel :D
sorry about all the smiley's  :D
« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 09:07:54 pm by Noel »

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2007, 09:31:53 pm »
When I started this thread, I wanted to add a poll, but forgot. Tonight, I discovered that this forum software allows you to start a poll mid-thread, so...

Remember that voting in the poll is NOT a substitiute for voting on the official HEAVEN matter, but it is your simple chance to tell people what you think.
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline Noel

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2007, 09:33:27 pm »
I wondered when that got there,
is this the Heaven worded proposal or that we should allow pre 90 ?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 09:35:49 pm by Noel »

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2007, 09:43:15 pm »
Purely whether you think we should allow pre-90 racing.
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline Noel

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2007, 09:48:56 pm »
thank Christ,
Ive finally got it .
Noel

Offline BJJ

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2007, 07:25:07 pm »
so many comments and views.  still,  I should exercise my opinion.  Too early.  2010 is a better time to introduce such a class.  The race schedule is already packed,  and generally the sydneysiders have to travel 2 hours+ to attend a Heaven Track.  Adding a pre90 class risks putting the whole VMX perspective at risk. 
what does WA and NZ clubs have to say on this subject?
Start collecting now.  For sure lets have 1 demo class per year and review results at end of season.

Other question would be,  to keep it pure and distract from viper and evo,  what restrictions would be placed on this class?

magoo

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2007, 07:35:39 pm »
I couldn't care less whether Heaven want to try Pre '90 or not next year, but it would be pure stupidity to change the constitution to ban it forever. Very short sighted me thinks.

oz555ktm

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2007, 07:45:14 pm »
I had a long phone call with a good Mate . But he did run me of the track into a dicth not long a go.

and it whent along like this .......

Why dont thay leave thing like it is .
If you want to ride a Pre 90s or what ever year ?
Ride it on the Saturdays ride day and when the numbers build up to lets say 12 then start a round every
2nd meeting and as the numbers build then it can stay .

I think this is the way it should happen as it build the numbers be for you have a class with low numbers .

arfte the 6 burbon I have had it suond good .

Offline Noel

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2007, 02:26:06 am »
aahh enlightenment,

new Username  Noelsan

sitting cross legged , breathing deep

   some times as we move to the future we must look back and ask ourselves where we started to check
    that we have not lost our way then stride forward with confidence


    also
    remember to open the garage door when tuning the  Methanol Postie
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 02:39:31 am by Noel »

Offline Noel

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2007, 08:47:48 am »
In the blinding light of the next morning a Question, :o

As this Era is not my expertise,(lets face it No Era is)

What is the comparative performance between most of the currently ridden pre 85 bike and a pre 88 /pre90 bike
compared to the relative performance across the range of Evo bikes,

Who would like to comment on not adding another class just re naming the Pre85 class as say pre 90
 Noel

Offline BJJ

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2007, 10:26:59 am »
Hi Noel. 

Performance difference,  who knows.

Financial performance?
Pre 90 is going to allow me to spend another $5K on MXB's and another $5K on 86-87 YZ490's.  It won't make me go any faster around the track. Thats something I need to work on from a human aspect.

I know that you get around trhe track quick enough :)

Personally,  I would be dissapointed if pre 85 got renamed pre 90.

Offline DJRacing

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2007, 01:26:49 pm »
Cammos, are you asking for a NZ opinion on this subject or more along the lines of what classes are run over here?
Basically the newest bikes in VMX here are 1985. The 'Kiwi Vintage' guys have 3 era classes, Pre75-125-250-open, Pre81-125-250-open, and pre86-125-250-open. And an Enduro/Trailbike (smallbore) class.
Up north in Auckland the 'Classic Scramble' club have 2 era classes, Pre70-75 and Twinshock.
Down south they have 3 era classes Pre75, Pre80, Pre85 and they also have 3 capacity classes, Smallbore, Midbore and Open up to 1985.
Taupo VMX club have Pre75-78, Twinshock and Linkage classes up to Pre86 and any type of races that is asked for on the day.
Wanganui VMX club have 2 era classes, Twinshock/Aircooled-125-250-open, and Linkage/Watercooled-125-250-open- up to and including 1985.
Woodstock Classic VMX have a relaxed "Race who, when and what you want" up to Pre86 (very cool fun)
Taranaki VMX have 4 classes,  Pre75, Pre81, Pre86 and Enduro.
British Dirt- all things Pre75 mainly catering for euro 4 strokes.

My belief (after talking with other VMXers) is that a Pre88/90 class is along way away, and it will probably be the next generation of MXers to include it.
The reason behind Pre86 here was mainly because of the ease and availability of the bikes and the general progression of how MX went from 4 stroke/4" of travel up to 12"linkage/watercooled 2 stroke bikes.

We are lucky (I believe) in NZ that the choice of classes is covered, and we dont race on man-made MX tracks so the older bikes in which ever class, doesnt seem to be at a disadvantage.

But as always its a numbers thing, and if the numbers arent turning up then it gets harder for the organisers to provide races for all classes. And of course its NOT the organisers fault but the riders when that happens. So if we want more racing we have to support everything going if possible.

We as VMX riders here in New Zealand are not controled, members, constitutionalized(if thats a word) of any governing body, so we make up our own rules/giudelines as we see fit. We do not pay club fees/membership fees/organization fees, or any other fees other than, Event entry form fees. In saying that, if we are unsure of something we only need ask the organisers of the event and the answer will be forthcoming, straight forward and taken on its merit.
If there are any disputes it is taken care of on the day and as yet I have never heard of any complaints from riders.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 02:04:30 pm by DJRacing »
If at first you dont succeed, give up and drink beer

Offline Graeme M

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Re: Pre-90 for HEAVEN?
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2007, 08:50:22 pm »
This sure is a difficult one...  I don't know that it matters too much if the vote is to keep HEAVEN as Pre 85 only, after all that could be changed at a later date if need be. However, after thinking about it I am surprised at the need for this vote. After all, the actual suggestion was simply whether or not to have a Pre 90 demo class. It would have been much easier to leave things as is and just vote on that suggestion alone, given that Pre 90 already fits within the guidelines of the club. And fairer too I think.

To be honest tho, my own opinion is that we don't need a Pre 90 class. Although Gezza is a mate and I know what he wants, I don't know as how the demo class idea is really an idea whose time has come. Gezza's real reason for buying a later model bike is that he wanted something that worked more like a modern bike for racing in things like the ACT Pre 85 class and the Amcross series. The argument that the late 80s was still a time of evolution doesn't really hold water, after all the first half of the this decade had considerable evolution as well.

Vintage racing came about for a specific reason and it isn't really just that it is 15 or 20 years ago. It is because the 60s/70s was a time that we won't see again. So much was happening and dirtbiking in particular was part of that whole scene. It was different, it was naiive in today's context, it was a time of freedoms now lost and it was a time of social change. I think we'd be stretching it to imagine that the late 80s, or the 90s, were in any way similar (in fact I think I slept thru the 90s). Vintage racing is about recreating a time, a feeling, and a sense of youthful idealism. It isn't just about how old the bike is.

Sadly tho, 'true' vintage racing will pass as the people who were there pass. That's already happening. I don't believe Pre 75 will ever really take off again. I think Evo is where it's at now, and Pre 85 is also well and truly on the rise. Just look at Qld and Victoria. But... it hasn't passed just yet, there's still life in vintage and the people who do it, and the Evo and Pre 85 classes are a complement to that. But later classes... just aren't... in my opinion.

We don't need it, I can't see what it adds, and I don't see the need to try it to suit one person's interest. 

Someone asked if there is much difference between a later model and an Evo/Pre 85. I have a 1984 Husky 500, I have ridden Gezza's 83 CR250, and last weekend I rode his new 86 CR250. The simple truth is that neither my Husky nor the 83 are in the same class. The 86 steers better, has better suspension, and has an immeasurably better engine for how I like to ride. I thought it the best bike I've ever ridden, tho of course I haven't really ridden any bike newer than that ever.

But the difference is neither here nor there, after all an 83 250 is a far cry from a 73 250. Nope, what is at issue is what we think of as vintage motocross. And for me, that is a thing defined by the simple notion of Pre 1985. Arbitrary? Yes. Do I care? No. Because vintage is more about a feeling than any rulebook.

Gezza's best bet would be to lobby ACT for a Pre 90 class because I think that fits perfectly the idea of the class there. And he'll enjoy racing the 86 at any Amcross or modern grasstrack he goes to, It'll be competitive enough with any modern bike. As for racing vintage, I reckon he should start saving and grab himself a nice Evo or Pre 75 250...

All that said, I will be interested to see what the vote is.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 08:59:12 pm by Graeme M »