Pre-90 for HEAVEN?

[Noel]

Lots of good points in there AJ,
Keep them coming Guys
Currently all club days are pointscored and go towards the club championship,
at the moment some classes are combined depending on entries and this varies meeting to meeting

but I think you could be right about reducing point score meetings and running different formats on those days,
just a note though, lots of riders publicly say that they are not riding for points,
but when it gets down to it get upset when a bike or rider that is not in there class
or some other factor  puts them off there race result,
I think that there really needs an attitude adjustment by riders and promoters in a number of respects,
entry on the day should be  and is  acceptable, but should be  the exception ,not the rule so that the culture is to pre enter, then the major events such as Nationals may not be  as stressful as they are at the moment.

[DJRacing]

Their are some great ideas being thrown about in this thread. Graeme has just about got our race order for the series that is run over here in NZ and it seems to work and AjayVMX has got some great thought provoking ideas. We have to run the pre75 bikes as an all in affair. But it doesnt seem to pose any problems and in fact its good fun trying to give the open class boys a run for their money. We also run the pre81 and pre86 125cc bikes together. For us 125 riders it means tossing a coin to which bike ya ride but it does mean the numbers on the start gate are bigger which leads to more closer racing.

As for the pre90 class I am undecided(will probably if I trully had to vote I would say no) as I feel that its a bit soon to bring them into championship racing under the VMX banner, but as a demo class I can see a positive side to it. In stead of looking at the pre90 bikes as mordern day monsters, look at the riders on them and promote the older bikes to those riders. How many people here started off going to a VMX meeting with only one bike but after seeing and enjoying the fun of it have purchased more bikes (and older ones at that)? Getting more people(riders) to a vmx meeting I always feel is a good thing for the sport but the sales pitch needs to come out about the older bikes, and in such a way that the newbies want to ride/purchase them. It is up to the older members (no matter how distasteful it may seem to them) to make these guys feel welcomed and that all the members would show allot of support to any of them if they were keen to ride/purchase a vintage bike. The number of races for the pre90 demo class could be less than the rest of the classes so that the riders get to see the older bikes out on the track and also if they want to get more racing on the day they will have to buy older bikes.

I know I have nothing to do with the Heaven club and my 2cents worth is probably in the red but I am enjoying reading this thread. It would be nice if the members said if they are members of Heaven or not, but thats just so I can follow the opinions of who is saying what.

Good luck on this one guys.

[husky61]

Some very nice points there people.

To right Noel about the points jockeys.

Vintage motorcycles as we all understand is becoming a very diverse field with multiple clubs providing opportunities for competition and riding.
Choice is the best thing available as if one clubs product does not appeal to  particular individuals or groups maybe anothers will.
Having said that , like most enterprises who fail to plan for the future , expand or plan for expansion , one of two things occur .

Stay where you are and produce the same old ordinary product for a limited market. (same rubbish just a different tip)

Loose your market share to the innovative players who cater for the more diverse or specialised market.

Those enterprises who plan for the future by introducing new products do not necassarily gain immediate benefits , but certainly do plow the seeds as they say for future crops.

There are many people that do not want to ride evo or pre-85 but could be enticed into pre-90 and perhaps once in the fold may develop an interest in the earlier model bikes. Until a pre 90 class is introduced , even on a development scale we will not know the untapped potential. Even if the parties interested in pre-90 do not develop an interest in evo , pre-85 or earlier , no big deal. Todays young are tommorrows vintage.

Expansion is a positive thing not negative.

let the pre-90 bikes in. Don't be fooled by the vote as only the minority vote. Be careful with your vote dont let it become a closed club. If this club doesnt take it up there are other interested parties.

If the option is already available as stated by Noel why would you require a vote for it , and particularly a vote to change the constitution. If this is the case ,is this not a waste of time and resources.

[Lozza]

True Rob nothing to fear and the sky isn't going to fall in from allowing anyone who wants to run a pre-90 allowing them a go.The main thing is no one will know if it is a goer without actually allowing it to happen.

[firko]

As Yamaboy said.."let's fix what we've got first". While I agree with the theory Rob puts forward where he equates VMX to a business needing to plant seeds for a future, I feel that any good business manager would make sure that the business is running at a reasonable percentage of its potential before new ventures are entered into.

The Evolution class is still way off its true potential. If you use the pre 75 division during its mid to late nineties boom time as a guide to potential you'd understand just how far the evo movement has to go. At its peak the pre 75 movement was fielding full grids in every class , i.e.  PRE 65 250 and Open, PRE 70 250 AND Open, 4 stroke 250 and open, pre 75 125,250, 500. Add to that three solid age group class splits with full grids for the pre 75 classes...under 30, 30-40 and 40-50 and the sometimes inclusion of an over 50 class. That's fifteen fully supported classes. If you look at evo now which is roughly at the same place in history and you'll see that evo has a lot more development to go with its three or four classes. If you add the newly adopted pre 85 division which at the moment hasn't even ventured away from an "all in" format and you'd have to agree that the evo/pre 85 has a lot of  potential yet to be unleashed.

One of the reasons pre 75 was so successful was that there was no alternate "distractions" to take away entrants. It was pre 75 or nothing. Now, there is a lot more choice availavble but it's being spread over even less entrants. If you add the proposed pre 90 class it will spread the entrant base even thinner. The idea presented that riders who come into the pre 90 class will potentially build bikes for the other divisions to get more rides is great in theory but in reality won't happen in any great numbers going on past history.

I believe that the evo and pre 85 classes could do with some solid promotion and a well constructed recruitment drive before any new initiatives are taken up. Clubs like HEAVEN and VIPER should be working hard to strengthen what they've got and recruit new racers. When we were building the pre 75 division we did some gret promotion to get new members like putting on bike displays in shopping centres, at bike shows and major bike events like in the paddock at the 500GP and such. We nurtured and won over the "straight" motorcycle press of the time with invitations for the editorial staff to race on borrowed vintage bikes, we chased down television where we actually got 17 minutes of prime time sports TV on the Seven network on a Nepean dirt track meeting thanks to approaching old racer and reporter Terry Galloway at channel 7. It worked. At its peak pre 75 meetings could expect at least 100 plus racers at low kew meetings and up to 200 at biggies like Condo and the Nats.

Right now, HEAVEN and I presume VIPER would be battling to get 70 riders to a meeting and that just plain not good enough considering the quality of the product they have. It's just plain not reing sold correctly. Before I get into trouble, I don't mean this to be a direct criticism of HEAVEN. It's aimed more at the evo/pre 85 movement overall. Once again, get what you've got running smoothly before moving on to another division. There'll definitely be a place for pre 90 in the future but bringing it in right now is way too premature.

[vmx42]

Hi Guys,
Another 2 cents worth - chaaachingggggg!!

I have to agree with most of the posters that EVO and Pre85 have a long way to go. I would like to suggest that the current class structures be left in place but maybe we could include a 'Run what ya brung' class.

The idea being that you can basically ride any bike with no direct lineage to any current model, or a bitsa that doesn't quite fit the current year categories. The concept being to include everybody that just wants to have a ride. Don't score the class, no points. It would be the perfect class for somebody who just wants to dip a toe in the sport - hopefully we would make them welcome and hopefully they would then be attracted to some of the other, more mainstream classes.

It would be a way of letting people bring a bike [any bike] out of the shed [that isn't current, but shouldn't be consigned to the wrecker or a farm].

I know there are too many classes already, but we should try be as inclusive as possible at the club level.

Is that 2 cents worth, or just worthless dribble?
I don't know, but I am sure you guys will tell me either way.
VMX42

[Lozza]

Suppose we can expect one of these 'bitas' on the next VMX cover and a 2 page spread on 'how I rescued it from the tip' story(with technical breakouts)

 

[vmx42]

HI Lozza,
I am sure that would go down a treat with the VMX readers - but I was actually thinking of a 6 page story.
I can see it now…
VMX42

[vmx42]

and a gate fold cover…

[vmx42]

and a pull out poster…

[vmx42]

and…

[magoo]

I reckon there's a bit of truth in all the posts. The best chance of Pre 90 getting a run is to run it as a non point score event at a few but not all meetings, remember QVMX went through all this 2 years ago with Pre '85 and now it's one of their biggest classes. Unfortunately, seeing there is no distinction between Vintage and Post Vintage, there is just no room to run any more classes. Viper don't run anything earlier than Pre '78 and I think they're averaging around the hundred rider mark each meeting, pretty healthy I reckon.
The best option is to have a split in the categories, either by the way of sub-committees in a club or 2 clubs that back each other to work together in promoting each others meetings but in Vintage and Post Vintage eras. Done properly, and with a major fun perspective, you'd find guys who don't ride outside their favourite era, would turn up and help out at the meetings they don't ride.
Also, don't over do it with too many meetings. Guys would rather 4 great race meeting per year than 8 not so good.
Whether Pre '90 is a legitimate Vintage class is a matter of opinion, like whether Shoey should wear open face helmets in public, I personally find it sickening but Shoey seems to have another opinion.

[magoo]

And as far as anyone criticising Heaven about this, I don't see it. People need to understand the difference between opinions, political debate, and criticism. It's a point of debate and nothing more, I reckon they're handling it fine.

[090]

Oh Magoo, i think shoey is quite a handsome man, er not in a gay way,er not that theres anything wrong with that! He makes you look like something i scraped off the bottom of my shoe ! So anyway, hows your wife and my kids? (Too far?) (Give it back, i can take it :'(,no really)

[AjayVMX]

Just as a matter of interest, the Motocross races at the Mid-Ohio Vintage Days event, held every year in July, have the Vintage bikes running on the Saturday and the Post-Vintage on the Sunday on a slightly "jumpier" track.

Works great and everyone has a ball.  About 500 Vintage and 300 Post-Vintage race on the same weekend.