Author Topic: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead  (Read 11600 times)

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mx250

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 08:51:59 am »

As a big fan of moto gp I'm sorry to see Kawasaki departing. Am surprised that they hung in for as long as they did without a team sponsor. Having said that for a long time I have thought that it's more of quality rider problem (money).  And here in lies the problem.
Shinya is the only rider of the Kawasaki whom has come close to finding the limits of the 4 stroke Kawasaki's.

On the rider issue there is probably 6 or 8 in the class that are plainly out of there league including Melandri and Hopper whom were never going to add anything to the Kawasaki cause.
Now that's harsh :o.

I call it as primarily engineering/money/management and not rider performance/skill/talent. Too many riders too far down the pack, and some of them have run at the front of the pack with the right gear ;).

Offline Lozza

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 10:28:16 am »
Rossi certainly didn't complain about the 08 M1's new electronics package or refuse to ride the M1 unless the electronics were disabled or removed.That remark was more to bait Casey Stoner and add to the furphy that the Ducati has 'more' and 'better' electronics, when in fact the M1 & GP08 run the same Magnetti Marelli Marvel 4 ECU (as do many in WSBK)
Jesus only loves two strokes

mx250

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 02:41:27 pm »
Part 1 makes good reading but it then falls in a hole and doesn't recover.

The discussion about 'What to do' or improvements is pointless and in complete insolation from the dominant cause of Kawa and Honda pulling out - Global financial meltdown aka Global Recession (thank you Wall Street and GWB for total lack of 'good governance' and timely regulation :-\ >:()

The interest now is 'will the FIM change the rules to allow the Championship with less then 18 starters'?, or will they/Dorna come up with some fotch potch to keep 'the circus' on the road.

runutz698

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2009, 03:02:29 pm »
If you add Honda and others pulling out of F1 to the above it points to a lot of problems in elite level motorsport in general, not all of them due to the financial 'crisis'. I'm just waiting for the V8 Supercars to announce cutbacks. I bet it's coming.

I read an article that stated the honda pulled out because it didn't see the point any more as F1, did not assist in any way towards the business and only pulled some un-godly figure out of it. The article also went on to say that F1 is loosing crowds and viewers. Intresting!!!

firko

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2009, 04:23:32 pm »
Formula One is dead in the water. I attended the Singapore F1GP night race in September and it was as boring as batshit. The racing was dull and once Alonso got away it became a procession. The difference between the fast guys (Ferrari, Renault) and the also rans is woeful. The night concept was interesting but after awhile the eeriness of the synthetic lighting became a bit annoying. I don't know if it was an Asian thing or not but there was surprising little atmosphere and carnival feel like we have in Melbourne or even more on the Gold Coast for the Indys. The merchandising was a ripper. $85au for a baseball cap!
I remember my introduction to F1 back in 1977 at the Long Beach USGP and the atmosphere, noise and spectacle were amazing. There were any number of drivers and teams capable of winning and there were actual on track passing and dices. Now it's a boring procession. The FIA are equally to blame with that miserable old wanker Bernie Ecclestone. The tracks have had every last bit of interest taken out of them with dumb chicanes and idiot proof corners that make passing difficult. The cars are way too technical and therefore expensive which leaves room on the grid only for the very wealthy multi nationals. Technical advancement is one thing but when it takes away the entertainment the fans go elsewhere. Right now, IndyCars, despite being a few steps behind F1 technically is streets in front as entertainment.

I think MotoGP is in danger of falling into the same shit hole that F1 is wallowing in if they don't watch themselves. Promoter greed (Ecclestone and Ioungo are tarred with the same brush), ever growing performance gaps between the front runners and the minnows caused by impossible to follow technical changes on a yearly basis and dull, lifeless tracks are killing MotoGP in the same way as F1 is dying. MotoGP has become so elitist that proud old teams like Paton are being lost at the expense of the big money with little return for the small teams. Kawasaki pulling out is as big a sign of illness in the ranks as Honda dropping out of F1. Meanwhile Superbikes gain more and more corporate and spectator following.

The V8 supercar promoters are making big mistakes that are also taking away the formerly unstoppable fan base. How many of you are a little bored by the current format and the ever growing "NASCARisation" of the cars? Nearly everyone I speak to has become disillusioned with the V8s of late. Theyre now carbon fibre 'funnycars' that are looking less and less like their road brothers. The quest for parity has taken away the brand identification that fans thrive on. The only way to tell the cars apart is often the paint graphics. It won't be long before the V8 Supercars are just like NASCARS where they all run the same body shell and frame, the only difference being the engines and painted on grilles and tail lights with the company logo painted on.

And don't start me on the current motocross format and the dumbing down of the motocross World Championships in favour of media exposure for supercross and even worse Freestyle. Most of the detrimental changes in motorsports in general are firmly based on decisions made by TV executives and insurance companies. The sports have become too technical, too safe and as a result, too boring. Is it any surprise that the most popular motorsport right now is drag racing, a sport that dares to allow individualism among race vehicles and noise and action on the track.

I still love all forms of motorsport but I , along with many, many fans are being short changed on entertainment. I wouldn't care if they halved the horsepower and speed of all of the above race classes as long as it promoted close racing. If you want to see how sick MotoGP is, have a look at the 1987 World 500 Championship rounds (I've got the whole series on video) and compare it to the 2008 series. The current format is very, very sick in comparison.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 04:25:35 pm by firko »

oldfart

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2009, 06:10:46 pm »
I tend to agree with you on V8 super cars. The fan base is not there any more and numbers are declining
Being a loyal HOLDEN supporter they lost me when we had to put a Ford parts on our cars  :D

Offline Lozza

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2009, 01:17:23 am »
F1 has fallen foul of the 'unintended consequences law' as after Senna's death the FIA had to be seen to be doing something.They made the cars longer and narrower which actually made them more aero efficient and faster.Then the rise in computer fluid dymamics(CFD) which made cars sprout those flap things everywhere. While this made them go round corners fast but the wake/dirty air trail got longer, to suddenly go from tons of downforce to none isn't fun at 180mph when you hit the car in fronts wake. Plus bad Bernie wants to spare tv directors the tough decision to cut from the car in the lead to show you the fierce battle for 13th, so he spreads them out, just as NASCAR closes the field up artificialy. Mark Larkam has said many time that efficient aero packages make overtaking very hard, even in a V8, stripping away the mechanical grip the aero gives would make cars very skatey and difficult to drive fast thus easy to make a mistake.They just as easy have wings and spoilers for looks only.Just look at a Formula Ford race no aero= great racing, 1 mistake 2 cars pass you.
MotoGP is in no danger of falling in a shit hole as it's been in it for years, just how you manage to drive even the tobacco squillions away must be very hard indeed.
True about the tracks great tracks make great races, Bathurst the last few years has been pretty good, as was MotoGP at Laguna Seca and Phillip Island

F1 wasn't boring at all when you a few (normaly French) nutters up the front. There are some shorter versions

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=wfvYaAiCuCI

Also needs a few fierce rivals
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=SHUk7lI4x7w

This what happens with no chicanes, geez this is a quick track and hard work too

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=M4EjKX9xLfk&feature=related

Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline Nathan S

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2009, 07:50:19 am »
OMG - are Firko and Lozza agreeing?
 :D

Everyone says that the V8 Supercar crowds are disappearing. Anyone know where they're going?
Sure as hell not to rallying (which has been systematically undermined by its steering body for years, in pursuit of their own short-term financial gain... sound familiar?).
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline Marc.com

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2009, 08:32:06 am »
OMG - are Firko and Lozza agreeing?
 :D

Everyone says that the V8 Supercar crowds are disappearing. Anyone know where they're going?

they are all drinking pre mix Vodkas at the drags and watching freestyle MX next to the skateboard area.

Went to the street racing in Wanganui on Boxing day, you can still walk in the pits, stand 2 feet from the action at the first corner and people were racing anything and everything, from Harley Softtails to factory Aprilias . They gave the Britten a run with Andrew Stroud on it......all good stuff.
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Offline Marc.com

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2009, 10:00:13 am »
Valentino didn't turn up but nobody cared ;D



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Offline Tim754

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2009, 12:43:05 pm »
True sport and entertainment right there MarkFX. Look rest of World at what the New Zealundas are doing right now!!! Biggest Cheers to the Kiwis :) Tim754
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Offline Marc.com

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2009, 02:37:33 pm »
True sport and entertainment right there MarkFX. Look rest of World at what the New Zealundas are doing right now!!! Biggest Cheers to the Kiwis :) Tim754

Oh for sure....the guy on the Softtail was running mid field in the BEARS and shut down quite a few bikes (KTM, Ducati) that should have left him for dead....the joy of it.
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Offline Hoony

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2009, 03:04:38 pm »


What a great pic, that's an early drift or is it the angle that makes it look that way?
Long time Honda Fan, but all bike nut in general, Big Bore 2 stroke fan.    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJoKP6MawYI
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firko

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2009, 03:47:13 pm »
Quote
OMG - are Firko and Lozza agreeing?
We may disagree on many things but mostly it's a 'good cop, bad cop' alternate view thing. I'm a stickler for old school tradition and he's one for gizmo inspired progress. It's just different views on similar subjects with no animosity (from me anyway).
Quote
Bathurst the last few years has been pretty good, as was MotoGP at Laguna Seca and Phillip Island
Here we go, agreeing again. Bathurst, Philip Island and Laguna Seca are the last of the old school tracks that have layouts that inspire good racing. I'd add the Long Beach Indy Car street circuit as a personal favourite but I'm not sure if I like it because it's actually a good street circuit or because it's a nostalgic link to my past.

I'm having one last fling at the V8 Supercars in April, going to the Clipsal V8 race in Adelaide. My fellow Kevlars have been going down there for the last few years and swear by it as a race and as a party. They've finally managed to talk me into going but if it sucks, that'll be the last V8 race for me until they change the format. It's usually a reasonably good race on the telly so I live in hope that it'll be worth the airfare.

The Wanganui meeting is the kind of grass roots event that we're missing in this country. New Zealand has it by the balls, no strangling Sport and Recreation act there. We get drip fed a watered down pile of televised crap and we're told by the media that it's exciting and for a while we believe them. Eventually we wake up to the brainwashing and realise that it's boring, over technical crap feeding the pockets of Ecclestone/Longo/Cochrane. I had more fun at the Nostalgia Drags, club speedway at Nepean and Classic Dirt last year than any of the so-called premier events I attended.

And don't start me on the disgrace that Rugby League has become................. :'(

Offline Marc.com

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Re: MotoGP Kawasaki out and some dire times ahead
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2009, 04:33:07 pm »


What a great pic, that's an early drift or is it the angle that makes it look that way?

No thats serious drift, Aitkens bought out factory Aprilia 450  and was sliding from way out. No feet down no nothing, just line up the corners 50 meters out and slider her in. He has done pretty well in the US series.

Cool thing is you are standing 2 feet away agaisnt the fence when he does it. Grandstands are off the back of flat bed trucks and most injuries occur from drunks falling off them. No private security, no bag searches, you can buy a beer, walk in the pits.....it rules.




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