HL500

[motomaniac]

I think the original VMX magazine article is a little out with the dates the kits became available. I think when someone turns up and wipes the floor at a pre 78 race with an HL it is worth getting worked up .... even Aberg had his work cut out and he was a 4 stroke racer from the short travel era.

Aberg carried a shoulder injury into the 77 season but still managed to podium several times before his famous win at Ettlebruck. He might have had more but for several teething problems.
The first Kit was imported into the US by Don Vesco mid 77. MXA tested a version with Simons forks and Fox spring shocks that year using the then current 4 stroke champoin Mike Bell who stated that he would defend his title on a HL.

[Captain Bilko]

Any fool can overhaul a stock bike, even easier if you use NOS bits, but to have the patience and be able to build all the bits required for a quality special is a good test of your trade skills and something not everyone can do.

So how does your HL replica go out on the track against all the production bikes that us 'fools' have somehow through the grace of God or good luck managed to have cobbled together Marc?
With your obvious trade skills and attention to detail your hybrid must hose down the rest of the field on a Sunday.

[Marc.com]

So how does your HL replica go out on the track against all the production bikes that us 'fools' have somehow through the grace of God or good luck managed to have cobbled together Marc?
With your obvious trade skills and attention to detail your hybrid must hose down the rest of the field on a Sunday.
[/quote]

Living 10000 kms away from my bike does create some obstacles, the biggest one is time. However, like a lot of people bike building these days is a big part of how I participate in VMX when there is not much time to ride.

But I guess anyone who has put a 'special' together, using original fastenings (not stainless socket screws)and really detailing the shit out of it will appreciate the running about involved. For the HL not much that is originally Yamaha just simply bolts up. One of my favourite Frankenbikes is the Montesa TT500 featured earlier, making a special  look factory is the real trick.

[montynut]

 The same people must realise that many people do not see the HL500 as anything great and there was very little success other than by Aberg. I think this thread was started with the observation that in 1977 - 1984 there may have been 1 or maybe 2 of these specials on the tracks of Australia maximum.

Yer right Who wants a twin carb Puch ? I mean apart from Harry Everts they had very little success and there were none in Australia.

Aberg was 7 years past his prime but rode the first 4 stroke to win a GP since Nicoll in 1970 , another 4 stroke didnt win until Marten s 16 years later. That makes him the only one to win on  a 4 stoke in a 23 year period. What other 4 stroke achieved anything even close? CCM,KSI ,JBR ,Hagon Yamaha ? None yet all of those bike are highly desirable bikes. To go further what other bikes 2 or 4 stoke that were available to the public achieved World Championship race success in the mid late 80's ? A few Euro brands that didnt race full works bikes but none of the Jap bikes  . HL's were well represented at National level in Europe .Austrlia only had a few because they were imported except for privately.
[/quote]

Thankyou for making my point. In case you haven't noticed there are not dozens of Puch Replicas which is the point of this whole thread. Are the CCMs and HLs highly desirerable? They are to some not to others is that wrong? You have quoted one sentence out of my post which, in isolation, is easy to make points against. I have no problems with HL, CCMs or JBRs replicas etc. But you must agree these bikes in the numbers we see today are not representative of the ERA. They were isolated attempts by small groups or companies to go against the tide of development at the time.

Aberg was a great rider and his rides on the HL worthy of everyones admiration, what you did not see was a line up of other riders to suddenly take on the HL at GP level. Otherwise the conversion to 4 strokes wouldn't have taken another 25 years or whatever and been finally brought about by political forces instead of performance.

[Marc.com]

Aberg was a great rider and his rides on the HL worthy of everyones admiration, what you did not see was a line up of other riders to suddenly take on the HL at GP level. Otherwise the conversion to 4 strokes wouldn't have taken another 25 years or whatever and been finally brought about by political forces instead of performance.

Very sensible comment, this thread was never about the HL being the be all and end all, it just has a certain mystique, like CCMs, RHs, Maico 490s, Rickmans, it is not about race victories, just some bikes are more the sum of their moving parts and become more desirable.

As for what bikes represent a particulalrly Era, it is very much subject to geograhpy and who rode and what was available, it is kind of abstract argument, like this whole giving people the feeling of 'what it was like in the day' day is past and those that were there remember, those that wearn't probably don't care.

[paul]

this was mine for a while the ex collard bike  (profab)

[LWC82PE]

It originally had Fox air shocks on it but Neil couldn't find bladders for them. He asked around local shops but no one knew where to get them. This may have been before guys like Thor Lawson in USA had them or he just didn't know where to try/ask so thats why he would have put the Ohlins on it.

[Marc.com]

Here we go Can Am Sonic screaming out for some love for $400 .... look good with TT500 motor
loo

[TM BILL]

Aberg was a great rider and his rides on the HL worthy of everyones admiration, what you did not see was a line up of other riders to suddenly take on the HL at GP level. Otherwise the conversion to 4 strokes wouldn't have taken another 25 years or whatever and been finally brought about by political forces instead of performance.

Very sensible comment, this thread was never about the HL being the be all and end all, it just has a certain mystique, like CCMs, RHs, Maico 490s, Rickmans, it is not about race victories, 

Funny i thought the whole point of MX racing was about race victories 

[mx250]

Funny i thought the whole point of MX racing was about race victories 

It is , but we're talking VMX .

[mx250]

Here we go Can Am Sonic screaming out for some love for $400 .... look good with TT500 motor
loo

I wonder if you could fit an XL350 motor

[Marc.com]

Funny i thought the whole point of MX racing was about race victories 

But this is VMX and it is about inflated former race victories attaching GP status to that second you got in the Taihape farmbike class in 1983 Bill. Cmon Bill.... Aberg winning a GP not to mention the last 4 stroke victory for many moons is not to be sneezed at...... you leaving winning MX to the guys with the tatoos and the hair gel.

[Marc.com]

I wonder if you could fit an XL350 motor
[/quote]

You could but you would possibly have to butcher the front of the frame, weld it badly back together and make some really dodgy engine mounts .... or you could buy one that has already had it done to it  ... this is the kind of bike that gives specials a bad name.

[GMC]

When ever I get on this site lately I have to double check that I haven’t clicked on www.olddribbledicks.com by mistake.
Oh woe is all that have been wronged by the fitting of later model forks to bikes.
So it’s not a HL replica because it’s been fitted with later forks?
Like it only happens to HL replicas.
If a YZ 125 A has been fitted with 250 model forks is it no longer a 125 A?
I can just picture now loads of perfectly good YZ’s up on blocks because they’ve had their wheels and forks stolen for HL projects.
Gimme a break.
YZ wheels and forks have been stolen for all sorts of bikes because they represent the best fork / brake for Evo.
And it shouldn’t take much for you Einstein’s to realize that these HL replica’s have been built to suit the Evo class and so have the latest possible parts to suit this class. You talk like it never happens to any other bike.
I agree some seem to have got the geometry wrong but that should make it all the easier to turn underneath them in corners.

Do you happen to write fairytales in your spare time bigK?
Never been beaten by a HL???
I seem to recall at Boagy’s  a couple of years ago that you were imitating a Caboose while a HL was at the pointy end of the field.

Why do HL’s get talked about more?
Because they have had a long history.
From the first project bike, to Abergs win to the bike that RJ rode spans quite e few years.
I doubt that RJ felt compelled to ride with 78 model forks, he chose to use the best that were available at the time.

I rode a HL a couple of years ago, young Frank’s who rides with Viper. It seems to be put together nicely and the first thing I noticed after hopping of an 81 Maico was that the HL had a small bike feel to it. It also turned on a dime.
Anyone that’s ever ridden a XT / TT 500 will know they are heavy cumbersome things but after riding one for a while you will notice they have some nice traits, mostly in the motor. So then some suffer the desire to make it more like an MX bike, slimmer, lighter and better suspension.
That’s pretty much what Kawasaki did with the KLX, fitted a KL motor into a KX 125 frame.

NVT = Norton, Villiers & Triumph.
They had the European Yamaha distributorship, and as they funded the complete bike builds they were therefore distributed through their European network. This is why none were officially imported into Aust. in the day.

Pro Tec & Pro Fab
ProFab were a fabrication company that built frame kits among other things.
Protec was a sales type company. They used a Profab frame to build RJ’s bike that was used in the “American  four stroke World Championship”

[motomaniac]

Thankyou for making my point. In case you haven't noticed there are not dozens of Puch Replicas which is the point of this whole thread. Are the CCMs and HLs highly desirerable? They are to some not to others is that wrong? You have quoted one sentence out of my post which, in isolation, is easy to make points against. I have no problems with HL, CCMs or JBRs replicas etc. But you must agree these bikes in the numbers we see today are not representative of the ERA. They were isolated attempts by small groups or companies to go against the tide of development at the time.

Aberg was a great rider and his rides on the HL worthy of everyones admiration, what you did not see was a line up of other riders to suddenly take on the HL at GP level. Otherwise the conversion to 4 strokes wouldn't have taken another 25 years or whatever and been finally brought about by political forces instead of performance.
[/quote]
There are not dozens of twin carb Puch's  because dozens were not made. The market prices that a Puch or CCM, KSI, HL  brings would suggest that they are very desirable.
Do you consider a greeves or a twin pipe CZ collectable or desirable ? because they also "went against the tide of developement" at a time when 4 strokes were mostly lining the start lines.

How could there be a line up of HL's at GP level when most every rider at that level was supported by an importer or the manufacturer? The Gp's were a good mix of the makes that did change from year to year a bit because of the lesser supported riders choices I agree but the HL influenced Banks to develope his bike as well as Eastwood with the Hagon and the KSI Honda.For a few years there were quite afew 4 strokes around at that level not just CCM's as before.