Author Topic: HL500  (Read 116888 times)

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Offline Marc.com

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Re: HL500
« Reply #120 on: April 03, 2011, 09:00:30 pm »
Unless profab frames are legit pre 78, as in available to joe public in 1977. Even then, production HL500 YAMAHAs as sold by Yamaha do not use profab frames. 

doesn't have to be available to Joe Public just available, it was winning GPs in 77. Replicas are fine as long as they don't deviate substantially from the original design.
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Offline JohnnyO

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Re: HL500
« Reply #121 on: April 03, 2011, 09:02:14 pm »
I must be missing something here. As I understand it HL500's were built and sold by Yamaha in 1978-79.
How can they be legal for pre 78 class racing? EVO? no problems there.

Unless profab frames are legit pre 78, as in available to joe public in 1977. Even then, production HL500 YAMAHAs as sold by Yamaha do not use profab frames. 
Have you not been reading this thread? A page or 2 back it says how the HL's sold in the US had profab frames and the first HL's were released in '77.

Offline Graeme M

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Re: HL500
« Reply #122 on: April 03, 2011, 09:11:53 pm »
Interesting question. My understanding is that the NVT built HL500s were produced in 78/79 and the ProFab frames in the States around the same time. That means they don't qualify as Pre 78 bikes, even though the actual Aberg bike was built in 77. Here's the original VMX magazine article's text:

In late 1975, Yamaha turned the dirt bike world upside down with the introduction of the street-trail XT500C.

A hefty 138kg OHC two valve thumper which dipped into the MX model parts bin for forks and suspension, the XT was quickly cloned as a "playbike" variant, the TT500C, within 12 months. Despite losing 15kg in the process the TT was never a racer, no matter how hard Yamaha's copywriters tried to create the illusion.

An expanding aftermarket industry soon offered everything from alloy swingarms, Mikuni kits, cams, pipes and external oil feeds to trick forks for TT500s, but very few ever won races. At best TTs belched great sounds, threw large rocks and made old guys tell lies about Gold Stars which they never owned.

Sten Lundin, a motocross legend in his own right, was the first European to sample the potential of the Yamaha TT500 powerplant.

He purchased an ex ISDT XT500 prototype from an American privateer in late 1975 and began fiddling to create a motocross project of his own. Lundin started by fitting the Yamaha engine to a Husqvarna motocross frame and then took the process one step further with a lightweight frame created by USA-based ProFab to Lundin's specifications. Profab was already a name familiar to Lundin and his colleague, Torsten Hallman, for their own titanium frames, stands and other equipment for Huskies.

Lundin mated this frame to a special aluminium swingarm and state-of-the-art Fox Air Shox. The bike was to be dubbed the HL500, combining both his name and that of Hallman - the Swedish Yamaha distributor at the time.

By late 1977 the original design had further evolved.

It featured weight saving YZ hubs and forks along with dural engine mounting plates and hardware. The whole package hit the scales at just on 112kg and offered around 250mm wheel travel front and rear. Not content to taint his creation with a soft playbike engine, Lundin turned tuning ace Nils Hedlund loose on his project. The end result saw an 11:1 compression ratio, a larger 36mm Mikuni carb and changes to ignition and clutch assemblies, but with the bottom end of the tough XT/TT powerplant left untouched.

Yamaha were keen to launch their XT500 production model in Europe and realised that kudos gained in international motocross carried a lot of muscle on the sales floor. They saw a window of opportunity and leapt through it in early 1977 when Lundin and Hallman approached them for backing to fund a serious GP challenge with the hybrid thumper.

Former Husqvarna star, Bengt Aberg, signed on.

The HL500 soon earned the nickname of "the Aberg Yamaha" in the motorcycle media. Aberg finally capped off an otherwise lacklustre season with a GP win in Luxembourg late that year, but Yamaha and Hallman both elected to drop the project and would not support a four stroke team for 1978.

However the machine had attracted the attention of Yamaha's own European motocross team boss who opted to create a small production run of HL500 replicas. The Norton factory at Shenstone (UK) was asked to build the bikes using a cosmetically modified TT500 engine and a chassis based on that used by Aberg the previous year.

Although they lacked serious GP winning performance and soonearned a reputation for being harder to light up than a barbecue in Scotland, 200 HLs marched out the Norton factory doors in the first year of production.

The process was repeated in 1979 with a further run, featuring wilder camshafts, improved CDI ignitions and 38mm Mikuni carbs. Minor changes to the swingarm shock mounts upped rear wheel travel to 260mm, while adopting YZ400 forks delivered around 270mm up front.

European production totalling 400 bikes over two years was inevitably topped up in other markets with a surge in aftermarket framed specials. Many claimed either inspiration or heritage from the HL500. In the real world of racing these bikes were often on par or even better than the HL "production" machines, but very few survive to be prized as highly as the two Norton-built models.


Offline Husky500evo

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Re: HL500
« Reply #123 on: April 03, 2011, 09:15:00 pm »



If you look at the bottom of the Hallman ad, posted by MarcFX earlier in this thread, it says that it is a '77 replica. I assume that this frame was available to the public, otherwise why would they advertise it ? I know that some people seem pretty anal about what is a replica , but if you turned up at a title meeting with something that looked pretty close to that picture and your wheel travel limited to 9 inches, you would think that it would be fine . I would bring a copy of the add as back up documentation .

Offline Graeme M

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Re: HL500
« Reply #124 on: April 03, 2011, 09:25:14 pm »
Well, I guess it's moot as the MoMS clearly states that the ProFab and C&J frames are legal for Pre 78.

Offline brent j

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Re: HL500
« Reply #125 on: April 03, 2011, 09:27:02 pm »
There is actually no arguement over eligability of HL500s in pre 78. Read the GCRs for pre 78.

It states to the effect that aftermarket frames are acceptable. It goes on to name several brands including including Hallman-Aberg.


* Sorry Graeme, you posted just as I wrote this.
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Offline LWC82PE

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Re: HL500
« Reply #126 on: April 03, 2011, 09:30:21 pm »
Quote
Have you not been reading this thread? A page or 2 back it says how the HL's sold in the US had profab frames and the first HL's were released in '77.

Released in 77 but were they actually 78 models? 78 models are not allowed in pre 78 class, even if you could buy them and race them in 77

was there an actual 1977 MODEL HL500?

you could buy and race a 78 RM250 that was released in 1977 during 1977 season but you cant race one in todays VMX classes as they are, in pre 78.

The more i read this, the true 'real' ones seem to be the Norton built ones with the Yamaha forks and the american ones are less so with their aftermarket forks. Thats just my thought. If i was after one it would be a UK one with stock yamaha forks and as close to looking like a factory Yamaha bike as possible, like in those brochure pics a few pages back. Not really sure about the shocks though :-\
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 09:41:23 pm by LWC82PE »
Wanted - 1978 TS185 frame or frame&motor. Frame # TS1852-24007 up to TS1852-39022

Offline Davey Crocket

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Re: HL500
« Reply #127 on: April 03, 2011, 09:32:21 pm »
Going on what Grae-me just posted....HL500's are not pre 78 legal....states they where build in 78/79....the original "works" bike was raced in 77 and for 78 they decided to build a "replica" and sell to Joe public.....that'ill deflate some ego's.....I see another Suzuki foot-peg saga on the way....and its Grae-me's fault....you might have to ban yourself Grae-me. ;D.....buuuuutttttttt wait theres more.....where the American frames built in 77?...and raced in 77?....wheres GMC when you need him.
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Offline LWC82PE

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Re: HL500
« Reply #128 on: April 03, 2011, 09:40:24 pm »
At least this topic is actually about VMX and bikes though.
Wanted - 1978 TS185 frame or frame&motor. Frame # TS1852-24007 up to TS1852-39022

firko

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Re: HL500
« Reply #129 on: April 03, 2011, 09:46:11 pm »
Quote
take it that this is a typo error Firko, as YZ J
Not a typo Mark...my ignorance. I was thinking the last monoshock was the J model. I guess it was the H.

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: HL500
« Reply #130 on: April 03, 2011, 09:54:36 pm »
At least this topic is actually about VMX and bikes though.
Isn't that a welcome change compared to all the womens weekly crap that's usually on here ;D

Offline holeshot buddy

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Re: HL500
« Reply #131 on: April 03, 2011, 10:04:31 pm »
exactly right :o :o ;)


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Offline Marc.com

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Re: HL500
« Reply #132 on: April 03, 2011, 10:34:33 pm »
I think the original VMX magazine article is a little out with the dates the kits became available. I think when someone turns up and wipes the floor at a pre 78 race with an HL it is worth getting worked up .... even Aberg had his work cut out and he was a 4 stroke racer from the short travel era.

I think modern replica kits keep things alive and add some interest. Definitely the classic road race scen benefit from the replica Manx, G50, Patons, MVs etc etc. As it stands you can build an HL, or CCM for that matter without having to have too much of the original machine available. Additions like an RH frame kit in the market would be cool, anywhere there are available motors in need of a better frame.
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Offline motomaniac

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Re: HL500
« Reply #133 on: April 03, 2011, 11:08:10 pm »


Somebody can tell me the years of 38mm forks? and when they changed to 43mm.

Thats easy they changed when the rest of motocross changed.Aberg and the other riders at that time used the best forks available at the time ,KYB,Cerianis,Marzocchis upto 38 mm,that was 77/78 .Once the kits became available in the US Simons forks were also used by 79 when Fox Forx's became available they were also used and by the early eighties when RJ and Leichen were racing in the 4 stroke Nats mostly Fox and KAYABA 43 mm were used as well as twin leading brakes and piggy back Ohlins.If you want to build a pre 78 bike use what was around at that time if you want to go Evo class go with the RJ, Leichen type with 43mm forks etc .

Offline motomaniac

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Re: HL500
« Reply #134 on: April 03, 2011, 11:32:15 pm »


 The same people must realise that many people do not see the HL500 as anything great and there was very little success other than by Aberg. I think this thread was started with the observation that in 1977 - 1984 there may have been 1 or maybe 2 of these specials on the tracks of Australia maximum.

[/quote]

Yer right ::) Who wants a twin carb Puch ? I mean apart from Harry Everts they had very little success and there were none in Australia.

Aberg was 7 years past his prime but rode the first 4 stroke to win a GP since Nicoll in 1970 , another 4 stroke didnt win until Marten s 16 years later. That makes him the only one to win on  a 4 stoke in a 23 year period. What other 4 stroke achieved anything even close? CCM,KSI ,JBR ,Hagon Yamaha ? None yet all of those bike are highly desirable bikes. To go further what other bikes 2 or 4 stoke that were available to the public achieved World Championship race success in the mid late 80's ? A few Euro brands that didnt race full works bikes but none of the Jap bikes  . HL's were well represented at National level in Europe .Austrlia only had a few because they were imported except for privately.