HL500

[motomaniac]

I have genuine HL forks on my bike, the Fox Forx came off an original Pro Fab framed bike.
[/quote]

What are genuine HL forks? Do you mean pre DG issue Works KYB's as in the black and white pic above your post?

[bigk]

The common replicas are without doubt the most hideous contradiction to our rules ever seen, and nothing like the real thing. But I suppose they're like fat women, there's bound to be someone out there that will love them.
K

[Marc.com]

What are genuine HL forks? Do you mean pre DG issue Works KYB's as in the black and white pic above your post?
[/quote]

I guess the point I was making was that the HL is a custom motorcycle, virtually every one is different as they were back in the day. So say one or other combination of parts and bits is the real deal... has no special meaning.

Regarding "hideous contradiction of our rules"... I think SpecialK has forgotten the odd hybrid CR in his fleet that might have been more suited to UK twin shock rules. Not that I don't love the RC replica, just it is not always about the rules man.

I think the RM TT option has merit as well. Especially done right. Get stuck in there are 35 years of TT/XT/SR engines out there.

[Marc.com]

I mean its probably a race winner against the modern stuff 

I have been offered the price of new YZ for my HL rep on a couple of occasions ( hometown is full of rich dairy farmers) but have passed, its not for sale.

[bigk]

The biggest problem I have with HL's, apart from the fact I think they're hideous Marc, is that if I took my big bore, air cooled, twin shock Honda which is built out of all 30 year old plus parts to a race meeting, (it was never built to race) I would be made to race the pre'85 class because the forks for example are from a single shock bike (CR480). If you took your HL with all it's freshly manufactured new, MAJOR components which have been improved, to a race meeting, you get a big pat on the back and get to ride EVO or mayb even pre'78 if you have 38mm forks. The common HL "replicas" clearly contradict the current Australian rules, but seem to be immune.
K

[montynut]

I'm not a lover of the Yamaha TT/XT 500 engined specials. From my memory there was one HL500 in NSW during the '70s ridden by a good 'C' grader from Dungog who's name escapes me. He just loved it even though his results dropped badly after building it, I raced against him many times and usually managed to stay ahead but he was a better rider restricted by that bike.

Why not reserve the title HL500 for the few originals (I mean the 35yr old bikes) and call the rest Yamaha 500 specials. It must offend the spirit of VMX to have RM/PE framed or cut and shut specials called a "HL500". However well built they are. Obviously there is demand otherwise we would not have companies such as GMC and others building replica frames to such wonderful standards.

Please don't get me wrong if someone builds a special out of period equipment or exact replicas of that equipment then if they are within the rules good luck to them. I respect their mechanical ability and vision. Its another bike on the track and that is good for the sport. The same people must realise that many people do not see the HL500 as anything great and there was very little success other than by Aberg. I think this thread was started with the observation that in 1977 - 1984 there may have been 1 or maybe 2 of these specials on the tracks of Australia maximum.

As far as I can see the almost romantic attachment to CCM, HLs and numerous other period 4Ts (I am not talking about pre 70 or pre65 eras here for obvious reasons) is all about the sound not the bikes real world performance. What could have been achieved by Mr Clews if he had put the effort applied to the BSA engine and running gear into say a Bombardier, Suzuki, Honda etc 2T engine.


Yes I realise that Montesa also had very little representation on Austrlian tracks in that period and so did Maico, CanAm, SWM or even KTM etc. How many 1981 MC490 Maico actually graced the tracks of Australia in '81? All these bikes were affordable, generally available and competative bikes at the time. HLs and CCMs were not. They required very very deep pockets, a degree in engineering and performance wise were still only comparable with the others not ahead.

[Marc.com]

The common HL "replicas" clearly contradict the current Australian rules, but seem to be immune.
K

If you are running 43 mm YZ forks then I agree, thats why I used Fox Forx, shocks are free so where, the only naughty bit on my bike is the twin leading brake. But you raised a good point, simply swap to one of my sets of Simons forks and it is pre 78 legal... what diversity in a single machine no wonder people applaud when you drop and HL off the trailer.

[mx250]

But you raised a good point, simply swap to one of my sets of Simons forks and it is pre 78 legal...

Would it be? My VB360 Monty is pre78 and it's 'too good' for the class along with one of the Huskies (and others??).  Presumably because they have too much suspension travel - despite it being standard. Which is something of a point of discussion in this undefined debate.

[frostype400]

HL's do as much for me as falcon gt replicas why people feel the urge to make a bike into something it never was slap another bikes parts on it ie the yz125 tank, personally I hate any type of replica or custom or what ever you'd like to call it.

[HL500]

HL's do as much for me as falcon gt replicas why people feel the urge to make a bike into something it never was slap another bikes parts on it ie the yz125 tank, personally I hate any type of replica or custom or what ever you'd like to call it.

I'm sure that when I finish my HL500, sorry AT540, I'll be a mit disappointed when I compare it to my estimates of the bike.  I've never actually ridden one.  But I own an XT500 as well and I bet my disappointment will pass after I've ridden that and compared them.  I too will be happy just owning a GMC based HL500 and then move onto to the next project, my YZ465H.

[firko]

If you took your HL with all it's freshly manufactured new, MAJOR components which have been improved, to a race meeting, you get a big pat on the back and get to ride EVO or mayb even pre'78 if you have 38mm forks. The common HL "replicas" clearly contradict the current Australian rules, but seem to be immune.

Why are they illegal? Let's look at the how the HL fits the Evo rules....Twin shock (tick), Air cooled (tick) drum brakes (tick), 43mm YZJ forks (tick, as they came from an Evo legal bike), frame (tick, the originals were released in 1977, and GMC are replicas of those Curtis built frames), seat/tank (tick, from a '75 model YZ125).
If I was to build one for pre '78 I could use 38mm Yamaha forks (tick as long as the travel was no more than 9") and a similar situation on the rear travel.

If it's the fact that GMC replicas are made in 2011 that fuels your opinion that the bikes are illegal, why isn't there any objection to replica Metisse, Cheney, CCM, C&J, GMC CZ or Faber BSA frames? The HL is in exactly the same boat so why is it considered not kosher yet the others are? Or do you want all replica frames declared illegal?

I don't particularly like HL's in 43mm fork mode myself but I respect that many others do like them that way. The way I see it is that the more variety in our sport, the more interesting it is. If you don't like 'em so be it......worry about your own bikes and let the HL owners get on with theirs .

[bigk]

I'm led to believe that the current crop of replica frames have been improved from the originals with extra gussetting strengthening etc. I know it sounds like "tin tacks" but when you can't use CR480 forks (tell me how they're majorly different to legal YZ465H forks) or even rubber mounted handle bar clamps (we all know that story), why should you be able to use a new improved major component like a frame? This argument just keeps going round & round and everyone can twist the details to suit their own perspective. There are some pretty trick looking, blingy HL's being punted here in Vic, but I'm yet to see one win a race (the last 8 years) so I guess it doesn't matter in the real world. They are just big heavy, slow chinese style pit bikes.
K 

[Marc.com]

I just like the challenge and the skill level it takes to put together a special or custom. Any fool can overhaul a stock bike, even easier if you use NOS bits, but to have the patience and be able to build all the bits required for a quality special is a good test of your trade skills and something not everyone can do. To make it looks factory like the CR/XL in the last VMX magazine is something even trickier.

[LWC82PE]

Lots of good interesting points being brought up here.

[HL500]

I just like the challenge and the skill level it takes to put together a special or custom. Any fool can overhaul a stock bike, even easier if you use NOS bits, but to have the patience and be able to build all the bits required for a quality special is a good test of your trade skills and something not everyone can do. To make it looks factory like the CR/XL in the last VMX magazine is something even trickier.

I'm with you Mark