VW valve fail

[Andrew L]

I thought the whole emissions scam was about gaining approval to sell the cars in various countries without doing the hard work to get them to pass.

They had a high performance motor that couldn't meet emissions standards.  VW set it up so the computer (motor) would  provide acceptable emission levels while being tested (in neutral in a workshop) and then recognise when the car was on the road and it would switch off its emission devices and provide performance, but it couldn't meet emission standards then.

I worked for a large car maker in Geelong in their emission laboratory for 20 years and to get a vehicle to pass emissions it has to be driven on a chassis dyno to a euro set drive cycle (city/country combination) in temperatures of 26c to -27c depending on the market it is to be sold whilst the exhaust gases are drawn off to be tested for chemical and gas composition and in the diesel case passed through a filter as well to collect particulates , the filter is weighed in a clean room before and after to determine what is coming out of the vehicle so if VW set it up for just idle test then lied about the drive cycle they are in deep sh£t  (sorry nothing to do with the valve)

[TT5 Matt]

wouldnt any car be tested by a government gas testing station before getting approval or do they just take the car makers word but its within the limits set by that country?

[Andrew L]

The EPA in Victoria is useless in the extreme in vehicle testing and closed their lab years ago not sure about other states , NSW had there own lab but I'm not sure it still exist either , the manufacturer has there own testing labs and is self regulated pretty much and submits their results to the appropriate government body.The other manufacturer in Australia a fair while ago use to work out there fuel economy figures differently , until it was brought to their attention by other entities and they quickly changed their process for doing it , it didnt effect their emissions but it looked good in the magazines and windscreen sticker so its not new to cheat a bit.

[skypig]

I worked for a large car maker in Geelong in their emission laboratory for 20 years and to get a vehicle to pass emissions it has to be driven on a chassis dyno to a euro set drive cycle (city/country combination) in temperatures of 26c to -27c depending on the market it is to be sold whilst the exhaust gases are drawn off to be tested for chemical and gas composition and in the diesel case passed through a filter as well to collect particulates , the filter is weighed in a clean room before and after to determine what is coming out of the vehicle so if VW set it up for just idle test then lied about the drive cycle they are in deep sh£t  (sorry nothing to do with the valve)

I believe what VW did was: put software in that detected if the vehicle was subjected to a test like the one described above, by sensing if all 4 wheels were rotating, and if any "steering" was being inputed.

If the software detected a test (city/country driving with only drive wheels rotating, zero steering input). The software would change the ECU to "pollution mode" - think LEAN!

Under normal driving conditions (all wheels rotating, steering inputs) the ECU reverts to normal/"power" mode.

So the "authorities" could dyno test any vehicle and it would pass. Strap the pollution measuring gear on and drive down the road - FAIL!

Naughty!

[matcho mick]

so who else got to remove the intake /exhaust restricters from the toees bitd BEFORE releasing to the customers  ,
ps & dropping the c/shaft sprocket size AFTER the rideby noise test
pps they soon twigged to that,then it was certain high revs rideby test
 

[Nathan S]

The main reason why the Commodores of the last ~15 years have 6-speed manual gearboxes is to pass emissions testing.
One test is/was to drive at 80kph in top gear, then floor it at a specifics point, and the noise level is measured X metres further along.
The taller the gearing is, the less the car has accelerated at the test point, and the quieter it is...  Lots of modified cars fail simply because they've accelerated to a higher speed/engine speed.

[80-85 husky]

better economy figures are also arrived at with just a tall enough top gear to give you what you need in testing.

[Mick D]

Scientists have proved that by far the worse vehicular pollution on our roads is indeed diesel fumes.
Chronic exposure is where some live near busy streets and highways. Especially "downwind" of uphill grades.
Google it, real bad shit, especially for the the developing brains of children. Really bad for lungs, Cancer etc, etc.
After reading it, only a fool wouldn't move his young family away from a busy uphill grade where diesels over-fuel.

VW would no doubt be aware of this risk and why regulations are in place. Performance sells. VW management conspired to employ a cheat mode for no other reason than to sell more vehicles.
 
What a bunch of immoral conspiring mongrels to poison populations that had regulations in place to protect themselves.

I reckon this helps to get one question out of the way.

Disappointing for a 2010 model with 122 000 kms!

Seems faulty to me. A moral warrenty claim?

Nothing Moral about this mob!
So I would say no.
Given that VW just borrowed 24 BILLION today to stay afloat whilst fixing this mess.
The Exon Valdez incident cost only 7 billion.
Of no relative concern Exon sold Esso Australia to pay for that cock up.




 

[Mick D]

I believe I know why this engine burnt out that valve.
Like the sum result of many failures, this one can be attributed to a series of factors.

I am going to bed and then work first though.

I am puzzled that no one has challenged me on one of those important factors
This one

Because of design, the Hot-spots that occur in this engine naturally occur in a pattern along this red circle line.
These hot Spots are significantly at raised risk when the vehicle goes in a over-fuel, overload situation.

One thing that makes a good truck driver is an understanding of the importance of knowing and monitoring their engine through their instruments and know if its time to back off a bit, apply "Mechanical Sympathy" and watch their gauges head back towards normal before stuff likes this happens.

In contrast to this,,,,bed time

[TT5 Matt]

thats interesting about diesels and the polution they cause and makes me think i made a wise move in 1986 when the DCM letters were being handed out when i worked underground as a trades assistant on loaders and tamrock multiboom drilling jumbos though everything was gas tested often and sorted if the reading were above the limits and they used low smoke diesel in them. at the same time in other countries diesels were banned from underground mines and they could only use electric loaders with big trailing cables on them,now i know why

[Mick D]

Obviously the piston has suffered damage. And probably the bore.

Do you actually know that to be the case?
I imagine if it were? That most likely you would have received a picture of that as well?

Out of all the tea leaves that need to read, we only have a few.
There has been many a valve burnt out without any harm to piston or bore.

[Mick D]

thats interesting about diesels and the polution they cause and makes me think i made a wise move in 1986 when the DCM letters were being handed out when i worked underground as a trades assistant on loaders and tamrock multiboom drilling jumbos though everything was gas tested often and sorted if the reading were above the limits and they used low smoke diesel in them. at the same time in other countries diesels were banned from underground mines and they could only use electric loaders with big trailing cables on them,now i know why

Something to be great-full about there Matt. Your away from it.
I heard about the dangers of it years ago, sick off smelling diesel fumes from being down wind of the buses, so I campaigned to get the route changed(using a different reason) And Succeeded,,,,,again

I have googled and read a bit about this pollution in the last few days, a hell of a lot of reason for concern. Make sure your kids are not growing up breathing it.

[TT5 Matt]

yeah the hot spot is between the 2 exhaust valves and the 2 into 1 exhaust port and the more pounds of fuel burnt means more heat to get rid of though most diesels have alot thicker radiator cores then there petrol cousins have. maybe these new wizz bang high speed commonrail turbo diesels are putting out too much power to be reliable if pushed too hard compared to the old diesels  which didnt have much go 15yrs back

[skypig]

Obviously the piston has suffered damage. And probably the bore.

Do you actually know that to be the case?
I imagine if it were? That most likely you would have received a picture of that as well?

Out of all the tea leaves that need to read, we only have a few.
There has been many a valve burnt out without any harm to piston or bore.

I'm only getting the info secondhand.
Damaged piston was mentioned.

The latest is "the turbo, injectors, and a 'brand new engine' are required".
Doesn't make any sense to me. Could a piece of turbo been ingested?

I doubt whether it was being (or ever) driven hard. Three little kids in it.

It might have been driven extra slow for a few sections of the last trip. Following a cyclist in training. I wonder if really slow driving would do anything? (Normal speed and conditions when it let go.)

[Davey Crocket]

I would be surprised if VW didn't fix this for free, get it taken to a dealer and jump up and down..... they will fix it.....Had a customers Passat with injector problems [well known in the industry for quite a few years], had done 150K's, 6 years old so way out of warranty, guess what, they replaced all the injectors for free. Another with a shitbox Ammarok that the fanbelt shredded and bits got behind the plastic timing belt cover....bent all the valves...3 months out of warranty but dealer serviced....they towed it away, put a brand new head on it in 2 days [they keep complete heads in stock for them....very common failure]...all for free....VW = German for shitbox.....lol.....they have lots more problems than just dodgy engine management systems. Go on Google....lots of happy customers....not.