Author Topic: Newish two stroke  (Read 13044 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Paulos

  • B-Grade
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
    • View Profile

Offline 80-85 husky

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3847
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2015, 08:33:23 am »
that's a lot of bike for not much money....

Offline Paulos

  • B-Grade
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2015, 08:52:26 am »
Looked like a good deal to me...

Offline oldyzman

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2187
  • 250 two stroke!
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2015, 10:06:13 am »
I rode one of those a couple of years back, real eye opener compared to the 300exce which i was used to riding.
I have a soft spot japanese mxers with aluminium tanks. Two stroke classic Dirt Track...

Offline Nathan S

  • Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 7275
  • HEAVEN #818
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2015, 08:40:04 pm »
TM250s are a bit of a lemon. I hate the way the alloy framed ones handle (although the steel frame ones handle beautifully), and the strict rule of "new rings every 25 hours or it will cost you a motor" is a bit of a drag. Add in a shit power delivery that wouldn't have won friends in the 70s, and expensive parts... there's a reason they sell cheaply.
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline Paulos

  • B-Grade
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2015, 09:05:17 pm »
they do have that doodad bolted onto the cylinder that fixes everything?

Offline oldyzman

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2187
  • 250 two stroke!
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2015, 10:04:34 pm »
I must say the one i rode seemed cool with the ohlins etc, but the power delivery was a bit like my YZ125E but with double HP..
I have a soft spot japanese mxers with aluminium tanks. Two stroke classic Dirt Track...

Offline Nathan S

  • Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 7275
  • HEAVEN #818
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2015, 08:56:31 am »
they do have that doodad bolted onto the cylinder that fixes everything?

The PV controller doesn't fix everything - it's about 10% of the solution.

The prehistoric combustion chamber design is the single biggest problem, but not the only one.

I'm told the TM company is (still) a hobby for some very wealthy businessmen. I speculate that they don't take it as seriously as they would if TM was their main source of income...
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline skypig

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2015, 09:58:13 am »
they do have that doodad bolted onto the cylinder that fixes everything?

The PV controller doesn't fix everything - it's about 10% of the solution.

The prehistoric combustion chamber design is the single biggest problem, but not the only one.

I'm told the TM company is (still) a hobby for some very wealthy businessmen. I speculate that they don't take it as seriously as they would if TM was their main source of income...

I have no knowledge of TM combustion chambers but am surprised they are prehistoric.
TM are aledgely 2 stroke specialists, making go kart motors? Then again, the are Italian.

Certainly, in every test I've read, they are never quite "there", engine wise.

They, and Husky (this year) are the only game in town for factory SM race bikes.

Offline Nathan S

  • Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 7275
  • HEAVEN #818
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2015, 11:59:53 am »
The 250/300 motor barely changed from 1994 until very recently (2010 at least, but 2012 sticks in my mind).

The combustion chamber is old school - narrow squish band with way too much squish clearance and too high a compression ratio. This makes them impossible to jet cleanly, to minimise the effect of the old school porting.
I had my 94 YZ250 and 08 TM250 out at a track on the same day. While the TM had better brakes, suspension and ergos, there was no question about which bike had the better motor or handled better...

The bridge in the TM250 exhaust port is too narrow, and buckles into the bore when it's hot. This is probably compounded by having cool water from the radiators being dumped straight on top of the exhaust port. So the bridge cuts into the ring, until the un-worn part of the ring snags in the exhaust port, which destroys the ring, piston, barrel and power valve. This happens between 25 and 30 hours, pretty much like clockwork.

Having the bridge built up with weld (to make it wider) and then relieved before replating, is supposed to make a big improvement.
I'm also told the later ones have a redesigned barrel, but have no experience with these.

Add in the issues with threads pulling out of the sand-cast cases, and it's hard to get excited by a billet brake pedal...

(I should mention that I've also owned two TM125s, and loved them both to bits. I still have the 94 model I bought in 1997, and selling the 04 model is one of two or three biggest regrets).
The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline skypig

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2015, 12:18:28 pm »
I love these forums.
You aren't going to read that info on a brochure!

Offline ITDOG

  • C-Grade
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2015, 12:45:45 am »

she is done :o

Offline skypig

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2015, 12:48:33 am »
Wow. Looks like new.
Too good to ride?

Offline ITDOG

  • C-Grade
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2015, 12:50:22 am »
never too good to ride!!!!....will be getting dirty real soon  ;)

Offline rocketfrog

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
    • View Profile
Re: Newish two stroke
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2015, 01:59:57 pm »
I think only Yamaha diehards would go for this shiney new toy. Everyone else I know wouldn't walk further than a KTM dealer for a machine to fill this role (arguabley) perfectly.
Political correctness is a doctrine,fostered by journalists and politicians, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."