Author Topic: Need a new project  (Read 9972 times)

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Husados

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Need a new project
« on: July 14, 2008, 07:47:41 pm »
Hi All

Seems like a lot of experience in this group....
I am looking at starting a new Dirt Track project bike
What do you guys think would be a good start keeping in mind i am a bit of a budget biker
i was thinking of TT/XT 500 or XL 500 my mate has both i could buy... Just not sure which one would have the most potential...?
I seen a couple of tt500 a West Wyalong #9 at the last golden wheels round they seem to go pretty hard.
Cheers
Dave

Doc

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2008, 08:03:56 pm »
Hello Husados, I don't have any real experience excepting a TT500 I briefly owned eons ago but the link below is a vid of what I believe an '81 XT500H at Coffs DT earlier this year. The bike he's serving a roosting to is an '84 KX500  ;)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LwFhow6zpyw
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 08:08:43 pm by Doc »

Husados

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2008, 08:14:53 pm »
I will have to get back to work to watch that.. I am only on dialup at home (bugga) its a bit slow..
Thanks for the reply
the tt500 i saw at Wyalong was on methanol i think it would have givin my 05 550 Berg a floggin.....
But i have herd that the old XL,s a good as far as reliability goes ?

Offline Graeme M

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2008, 09:30:20 pm »
I don't think you can go far wrong with either. I've seen plenty of XL500s going brilliantly on the dirt track. But for me, I'll go a TT500 every time. You can build a very fast motor and if you do it right they'll go and go. And for me, I just like the way they feel and sound. Go the TT...

Offline elsie 125

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2008, 06:25:48 am »
 hey husados, the tt500 sounds the best, if you no where to get one you can enter it in the aussie dirt track nats in canberra 6th and 7th sept, there is a couple of classes you can enter it in
   elsie

Husados

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2008, 03:16:32 pm »
Looks like the tt is the go

What would be a good start.....?
I was thinking of largerpipe, carby upgrade, port the head, Kwaka or PE alloy swing arm and lower the bugga.
What are the nat classes?

I am getting exited all ready and i havent even brought the bike yet



Offline elsie 125

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2008, 05:39:30 pm »
 couple of classess, the xt/tt500 support, and the pre 78, 263and over championship, if its later than a 78 model, evolution 263 and over, do you no what model your buying??

Offline elsie 125

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2008, 10:04:21 pm »
 I have read up that later than 78 xt/tt500 s can be run in pre 78 championship class as the bike wasnt altered from 76 on

Offline Graeme M

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2008, 10:06:15 pm »
You need to buy a few back issues of VMX magazine, they featured a three part article on building fast TT's about 2 issues ago.

But yes, they are easy to get going a bit quicker - 36mm carb, hi-comp piston, decent pipe (1+5/8 inch header, about 36/37" long, decent muffler, keep the airbox if you can but open it up to breathe better, maybe a cam, and away you go. I believe a KLX swingarm goes on OK, but have never tried one myself. Brent J on the forum is a bit of a TT fiend and has plenty of advice to offer. TTs are pretty hard to kill and still plenty of gear around for them.

Hope you can make the DT Nats, should be a top weekend...

Offline FireKwaka

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2008, 08:19:19 pm »
Hey Doc, the bike hosing me on the KX 500 was actually an XL500 built for very little expense (silly me helped build it). It makes a great dirttracker and get very good drive out of the corners.
  I have been hosed by a very fast tt500 also at the Wagga Wagga nats last year, I have seen guys spend big bucks to make some very fast TT500 dirttrackers but personally the XL's seem just as good for less expense?
83 KX500, 83 RM250D, Can Am MX2.

Offline FireKwaka

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2008, 08:22:01 pm »
Hey elsie 125, can XL'S run in the TT/XT support class at the nats?
83 KX500, 83 RM250D, Can Am MX2.

Husados

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2008, 08:51:06 pm »
Looks like my mate will not part with the XT500 so looks like the XL is the go....
I will keep ya posted
Might have to hit you guys up for a bit of advice when it happens.

I have had abit of a look through old post....some good info here

Cheers
Dave




Husados

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2008, 08:59:02 pm »
A bit of subject here

Why are American Dirt track bike set up so different from Aussie bikes.
tyres etc.     Is it because of track surface...?

Offline elsie 125

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2008, 12:13:42 am »
 hi firekwaka,
  the XL500 hondas can run in the XT-TT 500 support race at the dirt track nats, we have a club member on a xl500 that will be running in the support race
 husados, I think the american flat trackers are set up with different tyres is mainly track surface. Also there tracks are 1 mile ovals compared to our longest tracks being about 800 meters,
the american flat trackers sure look tuff

Offline Freakshow

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Re: Need a new project
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2008, 04:49:52 pm »
A bit of subject here

Why are American Dirt track bike set up so different from Aussie bikes.
tyres etc.     Is it because of track surface...?


MAin reason we both do Flat track is we have similar climates, its not somthing that can be done in very dry weather or mud, it needs some level of predictible.  So to some degree we are the same, but like aminals we have evolved differantly because of local differances and influences ( ie JAps and Mx).

but there are Lots of reasons id say.... mostly for them thats how it has always been, they used to ride on staked out flat land like wagon train racing in the real early days, then over the years as they got faster they built banked corners, even to specialised wooden board tracks.   

As the fair ground scene took off, races where promoted as winner take all rides at the fair grounds usually set up on open land with on a horse racing track so the same road bike would be ridden to the track, road gear removed and raced to try to get the promoters $$ purses.  as money was good,  the roadies followed the circuits trying to make a living out of it going town to town following the carnies.  the bigger tracks where 1/2 mile or mile horse tracks, so the bigger road bikes would eat up the little ones on the 2 main straights, so they kept the road look but streamlined em to go fast, and it evolved from there, nowadays they are mainly MX bikes dropped on the rears links and fork to get a lower CG, the same as what we use now.

Also its worth remembering that many of these period bikes where also interchanged in the old GNC series rounds, so in one season the same ridders doing grand national points did TT, Short track, long track, Road racing and maybe pikes peak or somthing, many would use the same motor in differant frames, or reset the frame/bike for the other disipline, like level the pegs out and add a front disk for the TT ( track with jumps), i guess the best version of that would be the KR - TZ750 where they used his road bike motor and stuck it in his DT frame for that meeting.  So strong motor setups often outbid original frame layouts which would be modified for different events/distances.  If you notice on a good flat track the guys pass in corner or on the run out with the speed they carried out of the exit, nothing really happens on the straights, so out and out power means little its all about Traction and getting it through the rear, in the right amount of hook up.  Hence many frames can change there Rake, trail etc

The other thing you would notice about there good tracks is that there professionally made, thats what lets them run purpose made tyres like the goodyears.  These top tracks arent farmers dirt like some over here, lucky to see a grader once a year,  Many top tracks are like a les burdett cricket pitch, has just the right blends of a number of elements including clay, granite and sand. The banking helps drainage but so does the mixes in it.  A good mix means good water depth through the clay, while keeping it solid to eliminate bumps or dust.  Remember unlike here in Aus where we pay an entry to win a plastic trophy on a track stacked with volunteers, overthere it was a promoted business with prize money. it was a serious business, to attract the show card riders you needed a good purse and a good track, so its stands the tracks had a more predictable element than here in Aust.

I think Australia though kinda stayed more with the british and went Speedway style on the Ovals and Mx/dirt bike or xs 650 style on flat tracks, specially the ones with the kidney shapes or right hand turns, these bikes dont go so well in the other direction unless you reset the pegs and a few other bits.  I got a couple of Flatties and they turn left by themselves on a 50 cent peice, but ask them to go the other way and its like writing left handed. 

Its a case of horses for courses.

As far as the tyres go though as mentioned, the surfaces are differant.  You can see some US bikes with blue line tyres ( like road wets) cause the surface is so hard packed and oiled in, its rock hard with only some movement, other tracks are soft and loose sand like salinas (calif) and they would run speedway style tyre front and rear there.

They also do indoor meets on concrete (dont ask why) over there, but most period fotos you see where taken by the likes of Dan Mahony or his dad, and only a few others who covered only a few tracks back in the day, many fotos - a few tracks, so your more likely to see the same tyres over and over again, just because thats the bulk of where the pics came from.   

It would be safe to say Most period bikes would have either the early universal Pirrelli MT trails or the later rounded Carlise style pattens (also in Goodyear, maxxis etc) as they both became standard race use in the 19".   Going with that size, F/R the bike was not only level but you could swap backs and fronts and also flip them to the other edge and get double the wear, in a period where some guys lived from race to race travelling the US racing 3 nights a weeek, in fields of 150 riders in the heats alone, being able to get more out of tyres, be able to recut them or regroove them for differant tracks ment they could kept chasing there Pro dreams longer.  ( attached piccy shows both tyres on my champion)

And there also was that weird period say from the late 80's the rules went very Harley, bit like the ford/holden stupidity of our supercar class, its a bit hard to get other makers or tyre makers innovating in a class that became a little too specialised, having said that though i have noticed there has been a resurgence in the other manufactures big twins offerings.  In the size classes Yamaha, rotax, ktm, honda etc all provide bikes to riders and are the staple at all local tracks the same as they are here, chookies are now the standard worldwide for the majority. So the differances your thinking about really is from a period of the bikes themselves, where we moved appart, but due to global forces and influences have really come full circle and now run similar kit again.  

I guess in a short answer to your question, you could just say the same thing for Car racing, why do they go round in circles and we go around left and right on street style ciruits ?  Either car would find it hard to compete on the other track THE SET UP required is very different.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 06:58:31 pm by Freakshow »
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