What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?

[evo550]

Without stirring the pot, a 1984 RC 500 with a standard PJ carb fitted, this I gotta see.

[KTM47]

 

You're absolutely correct, Kevin: the "major components" rule has been gone for several years now.
But we all have to pretend it still exists, because without it, nobody has a legal bike...

OK Nathan when was the major components rule in the MOMS last and when was there a mention of consumable parts etc.  There was a complete rewrite for the 2012 MOMS but I'm still trying to find any mention of consumable parts.

Also please note an Officials "Duty of Care" to licence holders is to enforce rules and regulations to a reasonable standard and not ignore them.

[Momus]

Without stirring the pot, a 1984 RC 500 with a standard PJ carb fitted, this I gotta see.

Three different 84 RC's I have photos of have PJ's. I don't have a shot of the reputedly full works bike Leisk rode in 84 to have a look at that one.
I believe that bike may have been on show at Broadford on 2012.

There is a magazine article scan from the time earlier in the thread that states explicitly they were using a production model carburettor.

[Nathan S]

You're absolutely correct, Kevin: the "major components" rule has been gone for several years now.
But we all have to pretend it still exists, because without it, nobody has a legal bike...

OK Nathan when was the major components rule in the MOMS last and when was there a mention of consumable parts etc.  There was a complete rewrite for the 2012 MOMS but I'm still trying to find any mention of consumable parts.

Also please note an Officials "Duty of Care" to licence holders is to enforce rules and regulations to a reasonable standard and not ignore them.

It's been gone since before 2009. You'd need someone with a better collection of old MoMS than myself to dig through and find it's last appearance.

Based on what's written, ALL components must be of the correct period (or carry over parts).
The good news is that it gets rid of Fatbars and unbreakable levers.
The bad news is that we've all got to hunt down 1984-spec tyres....

-------

Momus, production 1984 model carb, or production 1985 model? You need to prove that the PJ (or something identical to it) was available as a 1984 model part.

You may have convinced yourself of this, but you've failed convince anyone else, so far.

[worms]

18.6.0.2 for all major components for 2010 mom's.

I love the fact that your debating a class that was the pursuit of myself and very hard band of workers from the Qvmx to have endorsed by MA for the 2009 mom's.
simple rules work for all, unless your trying to bend them.

sorry I said I was not going to comment anymore, but all the experts are a complete crack up.

I will ride my pre85 bike for fun, and it's stock standard with fat bars lol

[Momus]

Nathan, my information, not all presented here, says the 1984 RC500 carburettor was the unit  used on the 1985 CR250.
They may  have been available to Honda in  1983.

The CR250 carbs were available, retail, over the counter in 1984. I'm not allowing for hair splitting over the various calibration parts but it is the same die cast carby body.

This means a savvy privateer, perhaps racing out of a Honda dealership, could have fitted a carby identical to the RC500 unit in 1984.

 

[evo550]

Without stirring the pot, a 1984 RC 500 with a standard PJ carb fitted, this I gotta see.

Three different 84 RC's I have photos of have PJ's. I don't have a shot of the reputedly full works bike Leisk rode in 84 to have a look at that one.
I believe that bike may have been on show at Broadford on 2012.

There is a magazine article scan from the time earlier in the thread that states explicitly they were using a production model carburettor.

I've got a few mags with Leisks "84 Cr 500 in it, all running round slides.
He did use a '85 model towards the end of '84 with a PJ, but it was a '85 model.
I'll try and scan them on here.
I guess the hard thing to comprehend about the RC 500 is that in that era the Honda GP works bikes where pure one off, hand built, unobtainium, then for HRC to drop a $100 production carb on it seem a hard pill to swallow. But I've been wrong before. I wouldn't rely on a magazine caption to a photo as being correct information... The current ADB reckons a 1993 CR500 has a powervalve fitted...

[evo550]

18.6.0.2 for all major components for 2010 mom's.

I love the fact that your debating a class that was the pursuit of myself and very hard band of workers from the Qvmx to have endorsed by MA for the 2009 mom's.
simple rules work for all, unless your trying to bend them.

sorry I said I was not going to comment anymore, but all the experts are a complete crack up.

  Brings back some funny memories...

[Momus]

Without stirring the pot, a 1984 RC 500 with a standard PJ carb fitted, this I gotta see.

Three different 84 RC's I have photos of have PJ's. I don't have a shot of the reputedly full works bike Leisk rode in 84 to have a look at that one.
I believe that bike may have been on show at Broadford on 2012.

There is a magazine article scan from the time earlier in the thread that states explicitly they were using a production model carburettor.

I've got a few mags with Leisks "84 Cr 500 in it, all running round slides.
He did use a '85 model towards the end of '84 with a PJ, but it was a '85 model.
I'll try and scan them on here.
I guess the hard thing to comprehend about the RC 500 is that in that era the Honda GP works bikes where pure one off, hand built, unobtainium, then for HRC to drop a $100 production carb on it seem a hard pill to swallow. But I've been wrong before. I wouldn't rely on a magazine caption to a photo as being correct information... The current ADB reckons a 1993 CR500 has a powervalve fitted...

Leisk may have only rode a HRC500 once in Australia, other times on a production bike.

Why would they not use the $100 carby if it was better than the previous black magnesium round slide that cost a bomb?

By '86 works bikes were very much production based- the production carby on a works bike was a good example of this change and probably good advertising leverage.

[evo550]

Without stirring the pot, a 1984 RC 500 with a standard PJ carb fitted, this I gotta see.

Three different 84 RC's I have photos of have PJ's. I don't have a shot of the reputedly full works bike Leisk rode in 84 to have a look at that one.
I believe that bike may have been on show at Broadford on 2012.

There is a magazine article scan from the time earlier in the thread that states explicitly they were using a production model carburettor.

I've got a few mags with Leisks "84 Cr 500 in it, all running round slides.
He did use a '85 model towards the end of '84 with a PJ, but it was a '85 model.
I'll try and scan them on here.
I guess the hard thing to comprehend about the RC 500 is that in that era the Honda GP works bikes where pure one off, hand built, unobtainium, then for HRC to drop a $100 production carb on it seem a hard pill to swallow. But I've been wrong before. I wouldn't rely on a magazine caption to a photo as being correct information... The current ADB reckons a 1993 CR500 has a powervalve fitted...

Why would they not use the $100 carby if it was better than the previous black magnesium round slide that cost a bomb?

That's just it, it's no better than a round slide, Honda are the only manufacturer to use them, everyone else stuck with the Kehein round slides until '88 when the PWK arrived, and that's been the carb of choice for 28 yrs. (in various forms)
My point is with everything else on those bikes right down to the washers under the sideplate bolts being hand made titanium or magnesium or whatever elseium, I would have thought the carb (a fairly vital component on the track to GP glory) would also have the same amount of love poured into it. Perhaps the original works magnesium carb you speak of has gone to magnesium heaven and a cast alloy one has been substituted by the bikes owner to keep the bike running.

[Momus]

evo550 all the photos I've seen from the day taken in the GP pits show the flat slide carby on '84 RC500's. The previous RC's sported the black round slide thing.

The museum specimens, which are not ridden also have silver flat slides.

Magazine articles of the day also go to some lengths to point out the production origins of the carby on the 84 RC500.

It is irrelevant that you think the PJ is no better.

[FourstrokeForever]

18.6.0.2 for all major components for 2010 mom's.

I love the fact that your debating a class that was the pursuit of myself and very hard band of workers from the Qvmx to have endorsed by MA for the 2009 mom's.
simple rules work for all, unless your trying to bend them.

sorry I said I was not going to comment anymore, but all the experts are a complete crack up.

I will ride my pre85 bike for fun, and it's stock standard with fat bars lol

Get rid of the fatbars. They don't belong on any VMX bike.

[Nathan S]

Nathan, my information, not all presented here, says the 1984 RC500 carburettor was the unit  used on the 1985 CR250.
They may  have been available to Honda in  1983.

The CR250 carbs were available, retail, over the counter in 1984. I'm not allowing for hair splitting over the various calibration parts but it is the same die cast carby body.

This means a savvy privateer, perhaps racing out of a Honda dealership, could have fitted a carby identical to the RC500 unit in 1984.

1. Was the carb you could buy in 1984 a 1985 model part?
2. If so, do you not think it's odd that it has escaped the attention entire OzVMX brains trust? Blokes like JohnnyO, KTM47 and Middo have been around the sport for a long time, with much more than just a passing interest.
3. If you are withholding information, then why are you continuing to debate this? Either shut up and put your submission in to MA, or lay it all out here. Claiming that you have more info without disclosing it, makes it sound like you're bluffing.
If you want to win the argument on OzVMX to gain support, then you wouldn't be playing secret squirrel.
If you don't care about winning the argument on OzVMX, then you will simply put your submission in.
4. It's not impossible, but I find the idea of a mid-80s works 500 having a 38mm carb to be unlikely.

Plus everything Evo550 just said.

[KTM47]

18.6.0.2 for all major components for 2010 mom's.

I love the fact that your debating a class that was the pursuit of myself and very hard band of workers from the Qvmx to have endorsed by MA for the 2009 mom's.
simple rules work for all, unless your trying to bend them.

sorry I said I was not going to comment anymore, but all the experts are a complete crack up.

I will ride my pre85 bike for fun, and it's stock standard with fat bars lol

The Evolution Class first appeared in the 2004 MOMS and was run in Australia at the Thumper Nats and then the ThunderX series in Qld from about 1996 before that.

The class was included as an Australian Championship classes in the 2010 MOMS.  So maybe that is what you are talking about.  Maybe you should check your facts before posting.

Also I don't think fat bars are legal either but that isn't a major issue as there are other things that appear to have become acceptable.

I still haven't been told were "consumable components" is mentioned.

[worms]

sorry Kev, have a look for the pre 85 class at the 2009 Nationals held at Conondale, Yes I oversaw the event and chaired the committeee that ran them and yes I oversaw the application for the introduction of pre85 to the mom's from the QVMX, they are facts.