What flatslides are legal for Pre 85?

[Nathan S]

Nathan, I do agree that the PJ Kehein wasn't available ON THE BIKE in 1984, BUT, It was on the 1985 CR250RF which was released late in 1984. From memory, I got my NEW CR250RF in October 1985.....

It's all about the year models...
If the 1985 Keihin PJ is legal for Pre-85, then so is the whole 1985 Honda it came on...

[John Orchard]

Nathan, I do agree that the PJ Kehein wasn't available ON THE BIKE in 1984, BUT, It was on the 1985 CR250RF which was released late in 1984. From memory, I got my NEW CR250RF in October 1985.....

It's all about the year models...
If the 1985 Keihin PJ is legal for Pre-85, then so is the whole 1985 Honda it came on...

Yep

[KTM47]

@ KTM427. 

Why does MA have to be asked when they have published regulations?  MA should be asked because it is their rule book and they administer the sport.  Also I received an official email which says that

The rules principle seems clear. They don't seem clear to the majority

If the part was available in 1984 then it can be used. In my opinion if it was available to the public it may be able to be approved to be used.

Also if someone wants to protest machine eligibility I suggest you do it within thirty minutes of the close of scrutineering.

[Lozza]

the KTM guys must be laughing (quitely ) delorto VHSB 37 

shhhhhh Mick enough of that what they don't know won't hurt them 

Lozza, despite having the external appearance of a round slide unit the VHSB 37 is functionally a flat slide carburettor is it not?

Yep first made 87 I think PHSB is the round slide equivalent and PHBE the old school version that takes the U series needles.

[Momus]

Yep first made 87 I think PHSB is the round slide equivalent and PHBE the old school version that takes the U series needles.

So probably not another flatslide available in 1984.



 

[Lozza]

Gardner remote bowl flatslides were available in the late 50's early 60's

[FourstrokeForever]

Nathan, I do agree that the PJ Kehein wasn't available ON THE BIKE in 1984, BUT, It was on the 1985 CR250RF which was released late in 1984. From memory, I got my NEW CR250RF in October 1985.....

It's all about the year models...
If the 1985 Keihin PJ is legal for Pre-85, then so is the whole 1985 Honda it came on...

There I go pressing the wrong friggin key again without reading what I type.... I got my CR250RF in October 1984....
I think the whole bike isn't eligible because the frame tag had 1985 as the model year.. Other than that, it was a pre85 bike!

[Lozza]

If the manufacturer designates that particular model as a 1985 it is not eligible for pre 85 regardless of when it was available/ complience plate 

[Momus]

The key point is that the component in question, a Keihin flat slide carb, was readily available in 1984.

Anyone could have bought a CR250F carb from a Honda dealer late in 1984 and fitted it to a 500RE.

[FireKwaka]

So....we just need a part listing dated 1984?   Bugger this, I have found a Mikuni VM, can someone please tell me the setup for a 83 KX500?   NOW the pipe drama, when I first built my bike there were no pipes to be found (GMC) wasn't making them then. After spending over 12 months to design, build and modify a chamber that was finally rideable I would be very dark if someone protested that it doesn't follow original lines!!! Neither did downpipes but they were used in the day on post classics.

[Nathan S]

Pipes have never been an issue. Don't worry about that. Worry more about whether you like your PJ enough to run with the pre-90 bikes.

------

The fact that Keihin made a PJ carb in 1984 is irrelevant if it was a 1985 model part.
The fact that Keihin made a flat slide in 1984 (as a 1984 "model" works part) is irrelevant if it was different to the 1985 model part that you want to use.

[Momus]

 


It has already been established courtesy of that post showing the period French language magazine article that  HRC 500 cc motocrossers used Keihin flat slide carbies identical to production items (presumably those destined for the CR250).

In other words you could buy a 500RC carby from your local Honda dealer.

[Nathan S]

It has already been established courtesy of that post showing the period French language magazine article that  HRC 500 cc motocrossers used Keihin flat slide carbies identical to production items (presumably those destined for the CR250).

In other words you could buy a 500RC carby from your local Honda dealer.

No, it has not been "established". You've posted up some photos, that show a carby that appears to be externally similar.
The burden of proof is yours, and is far more than you've managed.

There's no disputing that there were Keihin flatslides on 1984 RC500s.
The issue is how closely related they are to the production 1985 Keihin PJs - material, design and throat size.

If you can PROVE that they are the IDENTICAL, then I'll go from your biggest sceptic to a clear supporter - but until then...

[worms]

just to satisfy the guru, there is no more onus of proof required, just like the new evo rules, just run it, as I'm sure whoever is the eligibility scrutineer will have all the facts at hand to make the judgment required.

I think this has to be my last post, as the guru's continue to push their agenda's and must have the last word, I will make it mine.

enjoy yourselves and thanks to Graham for the journey, Cheers

[FourstrokeForever]

The fact that Keihin made a PJ carb in 1984 is irrelevant if it was a 1985 model part.
The fact that Keihin made a flat slide in 1984 (as a 1984 "model" works part) is irrelevant if it was different to the 1985 model part that you want to use.
[/quote]

How the hell it is irrelevant Nathan is beyond me. I have proven that the part in question, A PJ Keihin flatslide carby was indeed available prior to the 30/12/1984 cut off date for pre85 machines. Just because it is different to what was on the CR500RE at the time IS IRRELEVANT. A VM Mikuni or Lectron didn't come out on the said bike either. You argue your own arguments.
Thank christ you're not an eligibility scrutineer or we would all be stuck with stock standard bikes. Something which NEVER happened in the day.

The key point is that the component in question, a Keihin flat slide carb, was readily available in 1984.

Anyone could have bought a CR250F carb from a Honda dealer late in 1984 and fitted it to a 500RE.

And that Nathan, IS THE RELEVANT POINT.

No more from me. I'm tired of trying to make a clear and concise point with a know it all.....