Two-strokes set to continue at MX Nationals in 2015 (not VMX)

[Tex]

Not VMX related but I thought this press release might be of interest to some...

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

19 September 2014: Melbourne, Victoria

Williams Event Management and Motorcycling Australia have discussed 250cc two-stroke compliance for the MX2 and MXD classes in 2015.

After much consultation, the 250 two-strokes will be back next year, with a number of new regulations set on the machines.

There have been some noted concerns about parity, and WEM has worked together with the MA Motocross Commission to make adjustments.

For the 2015 MX Nationals, the following will be put in place as reflected in the series Supplementary Regulation.

• The 250cc two-strokes will be eligible with certain restrictions.

• The bike must remain in stock trim from the intake manifold to the exhaust port, and all engine parts between those to points and must be OEM for that year model.

• Intake manifold from the rubber boot where the carburetors clamp is and there is no porting or headwork allowed.

• For those looking to change swish an extra base gasket will be allowed.

• There are no restrictions on pipes or mufflers other than the fact that they must meet the Noise rules.

• An MA Technical representative will be checking engines across the series, and MA will have a head barrel and piston from each manufacturer to compare with.

• Any bikes, found to be modified will be excluded from the results of the day’s competition

[Nathan S]

WTF is "swish"? Says something about the quality of the administration, even if it is just a typo (ditto "between those to points" and "intake manifold from the rubber boot where the carburetors clamp is and there is no porting or headwork allowed" and "all engine parts between those to points and must be OEM for that year model.").

There are holes to drive a truck through. Is there a KTM HardPart cylinder head for the 250SX, for example?

[XC83]

Interestingly a 4 stroke boast anchor won the championship this year.

So if a good 2 stroke rider wins, they will tear down the engine at the end of the day, get the calipers out and measure the barrel porting against a std item. Wont that be fun! (presumably after Yamaha I mean a four stroke team protests)

I hear that a lot of people are pretty tired of the high costs involved in maintaining the 250F motors and hence the switch back to 2 strokes - not really power related, just that 'dad' can rebuild the thing cheaply.

Long live the 2 stroke.

[evo550]

So a 250 fourstroke can have unlimited work done to the motor without question, but a two stroke of the same capacity is weighed down with restrictions.
It just get worse and worse...
Does that mean no aftermarket heads or cranks??

[FourstrokeForever]

I don't know why they don't just introduce a 250 2st class. The cynic in assumes that it's probably because the manufacturers will sell less 250F's....

[KTM47]

I'm not surprised this has occurred.  Towards the end of the series Luke Arbon on a Husky was running rings around everyone and the under 19 class was being won by 2 strokes too.

In the past it wasn't a problem because the riders on the 2 strokes were privateers.  This year some better riders with factory support started to race them.

The facts are a 4 stroke will never match a 2 stroke for power unless they are revved twice as much.  Honda tried this in the 500cc GPs and still couldn't match a 500 2 stroke.

Anyway AMA and the FIM don't permit 250 s strokes in the 250 class because they both know they would play havoc with the 4 strokes and unless Honda wants it to occur it won't.

Nathan "I thought you knew everything"?  The swish is the shape of the head (combustion chamber). It was common to change this shape when we were forced to use unleaded fuel.

Please note

Quote  • An MA Technical representative will be checking engines across the series, and MA will have a head barrel and piston from each manufacturer to compare with. Unquote.

There is a pretty good chance this person will be Peter Doyle

Also don't google it Swish is a US indie band.

Yes I would love to see 2 strokes come back, but until the manufacturers other than KTM, Husky etc take them seriously they probably won't.  They like selling parts for those noisy smelly 4 strokes.

[bigk]

What a crock of shit. Just more rules for rules sake. 4t's are supposedly easier to ride faster for longer aren't they? The manufacturers are claiming similar horse power figures, so why handicap someone who wants to ride a 2t & has some sponsorship or cash to improve his bike? 
K

[mainline]

Nathan "I thought you knew everything"?  The swish is the shape of the head (combustion chamber). It was common to change this shape when we were forced to use unleaded fuel.

Don't you mean Squish?

[KTM47]

I don't know why they don't just introduce a 250 2st class. The cynic in assumes that it's probably because the manufacturers will sell less 250F's....

If you have ever had anything to do with running a current National rounds you will know that there isn't room for any more classes without going to two day meetings.

Also a well tuned std 250 2 stroke will still be a match for a 250 4 stroke (even the worked ones).  But a 4 stroke is easier to ride so the four stroke can still match the 2 stroke over the full race distance.  Also the privateers will still choose the 2 strokes unless they are aligned with a manufacturer who doesn't sell them now.

"Don't you mean Squish?"  well there you go they are wrong.  I will email Peter.
Anyway what is said here will make no difference.  We are just pissing in the wind.

[Nathan S]

I wonder if the barrel KTM supplies as a reference part will be just like the one you buy over the counter from a KTM dealer? 

Remember that RV on a KXF250 was the fastest rider at the MXdN a few years back.
I wonder how the Yamaha sponsored YZF250 riders would go on a YZ250 (without the F)?

[SUZUKI311]

Having spent the year helping Riley Graham who rides in the MX2 class, on a KTM 250SX 2T I asked the relevant questions of Kevin Williams at the Coolum round.
Indeed, as stated, no modifications allowed at all to the Cylinder, head, crank, piston, reed assembly. I asked the question about the eligibility of running genuine KTM SXS parts, as they are OEM parts.
The quick answer is no, the parts must be as fitted to the 2015 OEM standard bike- off the showroom floor- and not from the KTM Hard E catalogue.
Mods allowed are intake before carb, carb, ignition, pipe and muffler. Fuel restrictions still apply as per this year. This does not worry me at all for next year, as someone commented, a stock 250 2T is still plenty competitive with a modified 4T, AND AT A QUARTER OF THE PRICE !
We spent bugger all on Rileys race bike this year compared to past years when he raced a 4T, with the cylinder only slightly cleaned up by Kevin Doyle, and a slightly modified head. Kev bored the carb to 39mm, and we ran a Pro Circuit pipe and R304 muffler-not the shorty though. All ran on VP ROO 100 race fuel with impressive results.
It is a boon to privateers like Riley who do it tough moneywise to be able to run a 2 stroke, and the entry list between the MX1 and MX2 classes proves the point. It is embarrassing when the entire field at the premier class of the premier MX championship in Australia (MX1) is struggling to get 25 riders to the gate. The MX2 class however has no such problems.

[Davey Crocket]

A young fella I've helped out for years came 2nd in the under 19's this year....Husky 250 2T....he won some decent money for a 17 year old, the 2T's have advantages at some tracks and the 4t's advantages at other tracks. Serco where winging the most and yet the still won the MX2 class on the 4 bomb.....those bikes have a full engine rebuild after every Nationals, that's a lot of money. The manufactures want to sell 4 bombs so put the pressure on people like Kevin Williams and MA to have things there own way.....BS really. KTM sales are going up 10% per year, there 4 bomb sales are going down 10% per year but 2T sales are up 20% giving a net growth of 10%.....the others will wake up soon. Rumour has it Honda has been playing with 2T's again. With KTM's you can order basically a "works" bike from the factory, are they going to stop that?...it would be wrong if they did. I hope Kevin Williams got plenty of extra money out of the manufacturers to be bought off.....because that's what it is.

[FourstrokeForever]

I don't know why they don't just introduce a 250 2st class. The cynic in assumes that it's probably because the manufacturers will sell less 250F's....

If you have ever had anything to do with running a current National rounds you will know that there isn't room for any more classes without going to two day meetings.

Also a well tuned std 250 2 stroke will still be a match for a 250 4 stroke (even the worked ones).  But a 4 stroke is easier to ride so the four stroke can still match the 2 stroke over the full race distance.  Also the privateers will still choose the 2 strokes unless they are aligned with a manufacturer who doesn't sell them now.

I have had a bit to do with modern MX while you ask.....and yes, there is plenty of room for another class UNLESS the same 4ST riders want to compete on the 2 smokes as well

[Lozza]

Can already see 10 ways around those rules and as with all rule changes, drive development off in areas never thought of before, the end result is usualy a faster bike/kart/car. Then you can expect the 'engine development freeze' rule.
Only problem is the development you can't see is very expensive

[KTM47]

I don't know why they don't just introduce a 250 2st class. The cynic in assumes that it's probably because the manufacturers will sell less 250F's....

If you have ever had anything to do with running a current National rounds you will know that there isn't room for any more classes without going to two day meetings.

Also a well tuned std 250 2 stroke will still be a match for a 250 4 stroke (even the worked ones).  But a 4 stroke is easier to ride so the four stroke can still match the 2 stroke over the full race distance.  Also the privateers will still choose the 2 strokes unless they are aligned with a manufacturer who doesn't sell them now.

I have had a bit to do with modern MX while you ask.....and yes, there is plenty of room for another class UNLESS the same 4ST riders want to compete on the 2 smokes as well

Having a separate 250 2 stroke class doesn't solve things it just takes half the grid away from the MX2.  I'm sure WEM would prefer to keep the 250 2 strokes in there.  If there was room for another class and without cutting back on practice and the current breaks I believe the only extra class that should be considered is a 125 2 stroke class.

Also the Press Release RE the 250 2 strokes appears to come from WEM, I could not find it on the MA website.  So any criticism of the wording should be aimed at WEM.  I'm sure MA will tidy it up before next year.

Also these proposed restrictions make it even cheaper for the 2 stroke riders.  The 4 stroke riders will still try to get even more power at the expense of reliability.

The only other thing I have got to say is  KTM and Husqvarna and maybe Yamaha when are you going to make a 400cc 2 stroke?