Author Topic: Age classes do we need all of them  (Read 10766 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

albrid-3

  • Guest
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2014, 08:32:22 pm »
If there are time/programme restraints, you could consider running 40-49, 50-59, 60 plus, all-in (ie, regardless of capacity). That way, the rider could enter the bike he felt was most suitable for the circuit/conditions and get stuck in. If there is plenty of time and the programme can run freely, leave it alone, and run it as it has been satisfactorily run.
 But historic roadracing is now choking with too many eras/capacities, and struggling to cater for all their classes at nationals level. As a result, any crash or breakdown at their nationals compromises an already-tight schedule, and races are shortened or dropped, that's no good.

Did you know that there is a limit on number of riders at each start and that I am told is 17, so if this is true, then your grouping  idea is thrown out the window.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 08:34:23 pm by Dave #14 »

Offline supersenior 50

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2014, 08:54:37 pm »
Ian, that's close to what we have now if run by GCRs. My guess is the current event may die out if the say 40 plus yo riders migrated to a Masters event. Also it's hard now to fit everything into the calender.
Tossa I agree with your sentiments
Dave, who told you 17, the tooth fairy? Most tracks have 40 gates, and even our local private property track has 30 gates.
35, The GCRs call for age/capacity classes, and the Sup Regs I entered under show that arrangement.

Offline 35elsinore

  • B-Grade
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2014, 09:04:52 pm »
Col the sup regs I entered from only reads
Pre 1975 Age Group Racing

If you look at the sup regs now its highlighted yellow [ which Im guessing has been edited] with the addition of 125,250 etc

Thats why my impression was as stated, this means more rides  for me so good value for money

Offline supersenior 50

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2014, 09:10:19 pm »
Yep it's all good, looking forward to it. Only 4,000 km. Yes I know WA is slightly more but the Nullabour is a pussy cat now.

Offline Iain Cameron

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2015
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2014, 09:10:48 pm »
Dave where did you get 17 only . Col I am not trying to sink the Nats that would be the last thing on my mind , Just asking how other older riders think. As to me the pre 78 era is where I come from. DT1's and ON any Sunday is where Im stuck in time . Evo and newer just don't rock my boat . The idea of racing with like minded friends is for me the fun of it . Tossa put it in better words than me . With no prize money or sponsorship dollars its a love that we share of old bikes .
Iain
Yamaha tragic ; dt1, rt1, dt2, rt2, dt2mx , rt2mx , mx250, mx360,sc500, 74dt125, yzx125, yzc250, yzc400, yzd250, yzd400, yzh250, yzh80 , dt100 , xr75 ko xr80 03 , it175 82 . Not a member of any club

albrid-3

  • Guest
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2014, 09:26:17 pm »
Iain at the viper meeting at Barrabool, by the track organizers on the day, I was taking about a classic thumper national to be run at Barrabool before it closes down. They said it would be great, but the new ruling is that they only can have 17 riders max on the grid at one time. I am not sure if this ruling only to barrabool, or to other events

Offline supersenior 50

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2014, 09:41:21 pm »
Yes Ian we are on the same page, it's just that I think we have that now since the "split"

Offline Tossa

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2014, 10:06:47 pm »
I personally would much rather see the Classic and post classic championships be run as age group specific, there is too large a variety of ages to make it a straight shoot out.  We come from all ages to enjoy classic and post classic bikes for a straight shoot out.  make the championship in line with the people who ride it each season, not the riders brought in just for the championship
1973 Rickman Zundapp Metisse, to rebuild
1979 Husqvarna WR250
1974 Husqvarna MAG CR250

Offline Freakshow

  • Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 7277
  • Adelaide, SA - looking for a "YZA" tank
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2014, 10:43:34 pm »
VMX247--No more than 10??
2012 Classic Nationals 250cc 40-49  16 riders,                 2013      250cc 40-49  12 riders
                                           50-59  28 riders                                         50-59  18 riders
                                           60+     13 riders                                         60+    16 riders
                                  263+ 40-49   19 riders                              263+   40-49  10 riders
                                           50-59   16 riders                                        50-59   13 riders
                                           60+      19 riders                                        60+     15 riders
                                                                                       
            Sorry to introduce facts into the discussion
   
 

Just my opinion but talking about more relevant actual facts -  by just using the normal age classes (not splitting into the 18 variations proposed) you will not only get fuller fields but actually allow spectators to actually see multiple Australian title races not just a trailing of multi gate confusing support ride events, and get this fact ...guess what you WILL STILL deliver 6 Australian title classes,  which after all is said and done from the above facts list is all that was achieved... ( yet with 150 entrants ? ).

 What did all the people who drove there from across Australia do when they had no title class to race in ?, just go out for a fun day ride ? why should they have to, they should have every right to compete for a Aussie title after all that's the point right of the host club being awarded it.

Manipulating grids with bits an bobs of age entries with the remaining 10 classes (obviously using above facts as min numbers where not attained) those other poor buggers that travelled ended up literally in a club day ride. ( non title class) and had to pay for the privilege. 

Going by the above stats you would have been better to use the normal All power version of rating age groups and where over subscribed you could have then used the variation options to split or upgrade non title ages ie <30 -49 together to create titles or use the capacity option wiser to just split the over subscribed combinations that end up 40+ plus gates.  At the end of the Day surely we would be more interested in pursuing all the options to deliver bonifide title offerings based on the actual entry list, not a static sliding hope of fixed references.

Limiting ourselves to capacity age variation discussions will certainly create a downward trend in the sport, as can be seen in your age bracket creep reference, it has reached terminal velocity over the years.  Sooner or later you will just have a 60 plus title if you don't create solid fields now and build activity and credibility.   

It will become not financially viable for a club to Pay all the expenses to host an Aussie title, permits, medical and so on.. yet be unable to sell sponsors and rider and spectators the fullest of Aussie title class options.

You can't expect to offer *27 variations of Aussie title classes and expect the wider motorsport community to not question the value we place on the Aussie medallion.  IT'S not a peewee cup for crusty old people, there are other events like bonanza, CD and the like in each state to cater for joy rides....   I think we need to seriously think about how we as riders, clubs and promoters ensure we do everything we cant to create value for each title, create every opportunity for every rider and deliver for every sponsor and person standing on the fence.

seriously Next time I enter a championship event if its not structured and delivers an Aussie title class ill be asking for a discount....

this is just IMHO

« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 11:16:36 pm by Freakshow »
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

Offline Freakshow

  • Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 7277
  • Adelaide, SA - looking for a "YZA" tank
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2014, 11:05:46 pm »
Keep the age races and delete the capacity age races.
Why offer them,when they never get more than ten.
More unnecessary cost.
cheers A

You are correct Ally.  Fact is of the 16 class variations offered recently, only 6 where able to reach the prescribed 10 min numbers to be run as a Aussie title class, which ironically is exactly the same as the standard age based non capacity option but yet every one entered by that program design actually gets to ride off for a bonifide aussie title.  This world is full over topsie turvy over thinking....
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 11:15:37 pm by Freakshow »
74 Yamaha YZ's - 75 Yamaha YZ's
74 Yamaha  flattracker's
70  Jawa 2 valve speedway's

For sale -  PRE 75 Yamaha MX stuff, frame, motors and parts also some YAM DT1,2,A and Suzi TS bikes and stuff

Offline Viper79

  • A-Grade
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2014, 11:07:16 pm »
Dave,
I think you will find it was a noise restriction condition that was applied for that meeting at Barrabool. 
QA50 KO, XR75 K5 Race bike from VMBA days, XR400R1, CRF450R3, RM400T, DR650SE with off road adventure mods, MX360A, YZ400D, YZ465H, IT250H, 1985 Jawa 897 Slider, 2016 Jawa/GM Slider

Offline Iain Cameron

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2015
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2014, 11:49:52 pm »
Kerry please read the first post this is not a slight on the Nats . I was just asking if we needed all the age classes . The post was for discussion not a change in the regs or a go at MA . I for once wanted a discussion on here without hot heads screaming at each other . If the sport dies out as the older guys leave \ die off \get sick of the back bitting . So be it , to be truthful Ive never seen what younger riders see in old bikes that were built before most of them were even able to walk .
Iain
Yamaha tragic ; dt1, rt1, dt2, rt2, dt2mx , rt2mx , mx250, mx360,sc500, 74dt125, yzx125, yzc250, yzc400, yzd250, yzd400, yzh250, yzh80 , dt100 , xr75 ko xr80 03 , it175 82 . Not a member of any club

albrid-3

  • Guest
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2014, 07:44:42 am »
Kerry please read the first post this is not a slight on the Nats . I was just asking if we needed all the age classes . The post was for discussion not a change in the regs or a go at MA . I for once wanted a discussion on here without hot heads screaming at each other . If the sport dies out as the older guys leave \ die off \get sick of the back bitting . So be it , to be truthful Ive never seen what younger riders see in old bikes that were built before most of them were even able to walk .
Iain

I am with you Iain, The younger generation are not interested in the bikes we rode back in the 60`s, &70`s, when I was young I wasn`t interested in my fathers belt drive Lewis, Rudge Multis`
and My brothers Triumph 650 scrambler. I wanted modern at the time.

Offline Tossa

  • Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2014, 09:35:53 am »
Kerry please read the first post this is not a slight on the Nats . I was just asking if we needed all the age classes . The post was for discussion not a change in the regs or a go at MA . I for once wanted a discussion on here without hot heads screaming at each other . If the sport dies out as the older guys leave \ die off \get sick of the back bitting . So be it , to be truthful Ive never seen what younger riders see in old bikes that were built before most of them were even able to walk .
Iain

I am with you Iain, The younger generation are not interested in the bikes we rode back in the 60`s, &70`s, when I was young I wasn`t interested in my fathers belt drive Lewis, Rudge Multis`
and My brothers Triumph 650 scrambler. I wanted modern at the time.

agree
1973 Rickman Zundapp Metisse, to rebuild
1979 Husqvarna WR250
1974 Husqvarna MAG CR250

Offline kim80y

  • C-Grade
  • **
  • Posts: 142
    • View Profile
Re: Age classes do we need all of them
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2014, 08:35:39 pm »
Kerry please read the first post this is not a slight on the Nats . I was just asking if we needed all the age classes . The post was for discussion not a change in the regs or a go at MA . I for once wanted a discussion on here without hot heads screaming at each other . If the sport dies out as the older guys leave \ die off \get sick of the back bitting . So be it , to be truthful Ive never seen what younger riders see in old bikes that were built before most of them were even able to walk .
Iain

I am with you Iain, The younger generation are not interested in the bikes we rode back in the 60`s, &70`s, when I was young I wasn`t interested in my fathers belt drive Lewis, Rudge Multis`
and My brothers Triumph 650 scrambler. I wanted modern at the time.

agree

Yes that may be true re wanted modern, but lets assume all you or your parents  could afford when you were young was a then 25-20 plus yo bike,?? Then that would be what you grew up on!!! Also, some just think they "look" cool....

Cheers,
Kim