79 CR250 Front End Conversion

[FourstrokeForever]

While that Honda may appear to be legal, it is not with them forks fitted. You claim they are only put on for aesthetics and not a technical advantage. Bullshit. While they may not offer an advantage over a Yamaha 43mm fork they are streets ahead of the legal forks that the bike was manufactured ( OEM ) with.
 
The bike below also has 43mm forks. This bike is completely legal because the forks are off a air cooled, drum braked, non linkage bike.

This whole fork bullshit is being generated by some guys who just plainly bought the wrong bike for the class and are trying to play catch up by converting later model equipment. Nothing more. Nothing less

Can't say I see your point Ted.....
 
While the 43mm Showa fork IS much better than the stock 37mm units on the RZ's, they aren't any better then the Kayaba fork. Yet, and this is my real bug bear, I can be within the rules and fit the Kayaba fork on my CR, BUT for no reason other than the Showa fork being from a linkage bike, I can't use them even though they are still a drum brake set up with absolutely no technical advantage over the Kayaba fork. Makes no sense that I can fit a Yamaha front end on my Honda.....Now to me, that is more of a so called Frankenbike.

Some guys don't just buy a bike Ted...some of us actually build our own bikes from parts and RESCUE another near dead bike. Not all of us can afford (or want) to get some guru to build a bike for us Ted.

I have chosen not to upset the apple cart by riding my bike at any event until this whole debacle is sorted out one way or another. I like my bike the way I have built it and would prefer to leave it as it is. Then again, I probably never will get to ride it in anger seeing as I have a replica RC swing arm on the bike as well, even though there are loads of bikes running after market swing arms that are made today.

[HeavenVMX]

This is my only post on this thread so the usual posters that rip me after just about every post need not bother on this occasion.

I think everyone realises that the difference between an '81 43mm Yamaha front end and an '82 is academic. The 43mm Honda front end from ’82 is also very similar and possibly academic.

Unfortunately the front forks are the thin edge of the wedge so to speak. What happens when someone shows up with a CR250 ’80 model with an ‘84 CR500 or '99 XR600 engine or an RM250T frame with an RM500 engine? A C&J Honda replica frame with a ’99 XR600 engine.

The engine has not been modified in any case maybe the frame has but that is perfectly OK under the proposed rules otherwise every one of those 4T specials or engine swap bikes out there are illegal.

[KTM47]

This is my only post on this thread so the usual posters that rip me after just about every post need not bother on this occasion.

I think everyone realises that the difference between an '81 43mm Yamaha front end and an '82 is academic. The 43mm Honda front end from ’82 is also very similar and possibly academic.

Unfortunately the front forks are the thin edge of the wedge so to speak. What happens when someone shows up with a CR250 ’80 model with an ‘84 CR500 or '99 XR600 engine or an RM250T frame with an RM500 engine? A C&J Honda replica frame with a ’99 XR600 engine.

The engine has not been modified in any case maybe the frame has but that is perfectly OK under the proposed rules otherwise every one of those 4T specials or engine swap bikes out there are illegal.

Heaven VMX I agree with what you are saying.

Also please note despite what many think EVO does have a period.

Below is the current rule

14.2.15.3.  Bikes will be OEM.  Modifications converting later equipment to comply will not be allowed. 
                 All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured.
                a) No linkage suspension
                b) No Disc brakes
                c) Air cooled motors

so please note the wording
 "All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured."  so really the components for each bike should come from the year that bike was manufactured.  So the forks for a 1978 to 1980 CR should come off a bike from that year.  Also a Husqvarna 500 is the only bike that should be able to run a flat slide carby off an RM465 83 or 84 model.

Clearly this is not totally workable.  That wording should also mean that everything including motor parts (pistons & rings) controls etc should come from the period the bike was manufactured.

With regards using new shocks etc particularly for EVO any shocks you can buy new (now) are not radically different from what was available back in the day.  For the older classes although not written anywhere you can not use externally adjustable shocks for Pre 78 and there are other restrictions for older classes. 

The machines in all Classic/Vintage forms of Motorsport are now mechanically better than they were back when new.

There also needs to be a rule permitting replica parts.  Right now there isn't one.  One example is magnesium hubs and brake backing plates become fragile with time.  You should be able to remake them and if needed improve them for safety.  There are examples of this but I'm not going to open that up here.  Any replica parts maybe should be submitted to MA of approval.

I have my own opinion as to why the rules are being changed now.  I won't express it here.

Kevin

[Ted]

While that Honda may appear to be legal, it is not with them forks fitted. You claim they are only put on for aesthetics and not a technical advantage. Bullshit. While they may not offer an advantage over a Yamaha 43mm fork they are streets ahead of the legal forks that the bike was manufactured ( OEM ) with.
 
The bike below also has 43mm forks. This bike is completely legal because the forks are off a air cooled, drum braked, non linkage bike.

This whole fork bullshit is being generated by some guys who just plainly bought the wrong bike for the class and are trying to play catch up by converting later model equipment. Nothing more. Nothing less

Can't say I see your point Ted.....
 
While the 43mm Showa fork IS much better than the stock 37mm units on the RZ's, they aren't any better then the Kayaba fork. Yet, and this is my real bug bear, I can be within the rules and fit the Kayaba fork on my CR, BUT for no reason other than the Showa fork being from a linkage bike, I can't use them even though they are still a drum brake set up with absolutely no technical advantage over the Kayaba fork. Makes no sense that I can fit a Yamaha front end on my Honda.....Now to me, that is more of a so called Frankenbike.

Some guys don't just buy a bike Ted...some of us actually build our own bikes from parts and RESCUE another near dead bike. Not all of us can afford (or want) to get some guru to build a bike for us Ted.

I have chosen not to upset the apple cart by riding my bike at any event until this whole debacle is sorted out one way or another. I like my bike the way I have built it and would prefer to leave it as it is. Then again, I probably never will get to ride it in anger seeing as I have a replica RC swing arm on the bike as well, even though there are loads of bikes running after market swing arms that are made today.

So you build your own bikes with metal sourced from the mill do you. Apart from the wrong selection of fork it seems you've done an admirable job. Well done

[Mick D]

I usually choose not to read threads as such, because of their pukability.
A clear inarguable line seems way overdue. All the classes need to be separated by a clear and defining boundary.
There should be a clear point when a modified bike crosses that line into next class. One class or the other. Or may as well just merge the lot and be done with it.

Boundaries that are no longer open to blurring by the use of semantics to push ambiguities of single words taken out of context. Comprehendable to anyone and all.
Seeming impossible to please everyone at the moment.
I really admire your effort and intent to draw this line of clarity Kevin. Regardless on what it is and where the dust settles, thank you for your undying efforts.

The sooner this thorn is done, dusted and clear to all, the better for all.
Then if an individual don't like it, they can then draft and lodge a submission for consideration of the powers to be.
No wonder Vinduros are gathering strength so quickly.
 

[JohnnyO]

Kevin a period isn't a year it can be any amount of time.
If you think it should be then that would make Brads 78 Evo Maico illegal because it has 81 YZ forks which is absolutely ridiculous, all the parts come from an Evo bike!
At best all you guys are doing with this bullshit debate is harming the Evo class and turning people away who were thinking of racing that class!
82/83 forks have been used for 18 years in the Evo class without any detriment to the class whatsoever...unlike this thread!!
Most of the people in this debate came into the sport well after the inception of the Evo class and think they know it's history..WTF??!!

[Graham]

Kevin a period isn't a year it can be any amount of time.
If you think it should be then that would make Brads 78 Evo Maico illegal because it has 81 YZ forks which is absolutely ridiculous, all the parts come from an Evo bike!
At best all you guys are doing with this bullshit debate is harming the Evo class and turning people away who were thinking of racing that class!
82/83 forks have been used for 18 years in the Evo class without any detriment to the class whatsoever...unlike this thread!!
Most of the people in this debate came into the sport well after the inception of the Evo class and think they know it's history..WTF??!!

Thank god someone who knows what there talking about , maybe be its not the modified fork people with an agenda to cheat its the unmodified people crying cause they didn't have the brains to work out what's legal and what's not so who the ones with the agenda then, so far seems to be 3 or 4  having trouble.

Oh and once again you missed the point 2014 shock OK but 30 yr old forks not,   go figure

[marshallmech]

An original equipment manufacturer, or OEM, manufactures products or components that are purchased by another company and retailed under that purchasing company's brand name.[1] OEM refers to the company that originally manufactured the product. When referring to automotive parts, OEM designates a replacement part made by the manufacturer of the original part.[2]


So in reading the above yamaha forks are not OEM for a honda as they are not a copy of the original honda part.

[marshallmech]

When referring to automotive parts, OEM designates a replacement part made by the manufacturer of the original part.[2] As most cars are originally assembled with parts made by companies other than the one whose badge appears on the vehicle,cars, it may happen that a car company sells OEM spare parts without claiming to have manufactured the part itself.

An automobile part may carry the designation OEM if it is made by the same manufacturer and is the original part used when building and selling the product.[2] The term aftermarket is often used for non-OEM spare parts.[2]

[Ted]

Kevin a period isn't a year it can be any amount of time.
If you think it should be then that would make Brads 78 Evo Maico illegal because it has 81 YZ forks which is absolutely ridiculous, all the parts come from an Evo bike!
At best all you guys are doing with this bullshit debate is harming the Evo class and turning people away who were thinking of racing that class!
82/83 forks have been used for 18 years in the Evo class without any detriment to the class whatsoever...unlike this thread!!
Most of the people in this debate came into the sport well after the inception of the Evo class and think they know it's history..WTF??!!

Thank god someone who knows what there talking about , maybe be its not the modified fork people with an agenda to cheat its the unmodified people crying cause they didn't have the brains to work out what's legal and what's not so who the ones with the agenda then, so far seems to be 3 or 4  having trouble.

Oh and once again you missed the point 2014 shock OK but 30 yr old forks not,   go figure

As John has stated on numerous occasions this forums opinions account for 2/5ths of fu..all in the real world. I have proven that. However it is very good at bringing attention to the masses of any shortcomings in VMX.

The three or four of us unmodified, crying, brainless and agenda driven rabble WIll have our submissions to MA  on the due date for consideration. I suggest you get busy and do the same. Go figure.

[William Doe]

[

Oh and once again you missed the point 2014 shock OK but 30 yr old forks not,   go figure

Dont think anyones missed the point , shocks are open slater according to the MOMs .

[Ted]

[

Oh and once again you missed the point 2014 shock OK but 30 yr old forks not,   go figure

Dont think anyones missed the point , shocks are open slater according to the MOMs .

He only wants to interpret what suits him.

[JohnnyO]

Ted I'm using YZ 465 forks on my bikes so it doesn't bother me which way the rules go but I can tell you there is absolutely no advantage using 43mm YZ490 or CR480 forks other than the fact the 480 forks are easier to fit to a Honda and 465 front ends are very hard to find.

So it's really got me buggered why the big fuss about the forks on here when it's ok to use cartridge emulators which were never available in the day and really do give improved performance! WTF with that ruling?

And if you think letting people use 82/83 forks is going to open the flood gates for all these modern hotrods with 2 shocks bolted on then where have the hotrods been the last 18yrs while everyone was using the said forks??!

[Ted]

John,
        As Heaven VMX said, the forks are only the tip of the iceberg. Once you remove the OEM wording it is open slather 2015 VMX.

You say there is no advantage. They say they are for aesthetics and RC replica's.
They are a huge advantage over what the bike came out with ( OEM ) That is the sole reason they are used.

I too have 43mm forks. And to tell you the truth I also don't give a toss. But if you want to have rules they have to be adhered to. Changing out the fork requires a modification to convert later equipment to comply. They are changed cosmetically and technically. 

 That's a no no according to the MoMS.

What bothers me though is why are only a very few Qlders aware that these forks are allowed without repercussions?

I don't make these rules but I will sure as hell comply with them, as you witnessed at the Wyaralong Nats turning up with the steel arm fitted to my 125 and seeking approval to use the alloy arm.

[JohnnyO]

Ted I said the 480/490 forks are no advantage over the 465 forks.. by your ruling it's 100% legal to fit YZ465 forks to a 79 CR250 and they are bigger and changed cosmetically and technical but they're legal so what's the difference!

Plenty of queenslanders are aware 82/83 forks have been allowed, that's why they've been using them. There's also a fair share of NSW and Vic riders using them.

Who said anything about removing the OEM wording and making it open slather? I'm talking about now not what might happen in the future.