Author Topic: Fuel tank building question  (Read 9302 times)

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Offline Branchy

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Fuel tank building question
« on: February 17, 2014, 06:35:50 pm »
What grade / thickness sheet aluminium would you use to build a tank on a dirt bike , only tight  bend the  tunnel  but not much elsewhere mainly flat cut pattern with slight bends
maybe a trip to gloucester for those boy'z really know how to throw a party ps dont mention dungog (must be some old footy rivalry)

Offline Lozza

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 07:41:47 pm »
Try to get 1111 series in O condition, hard to get though. You will only get sheet in 5000 or 7000 series
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline Michael Moore

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 04:16:24 am »
3003 is a common alloy in the US for bodywork.  It is nearly identical to 1100 but is slightly stronger.  Usually people get 1/4 hard temper.  That is what I used to make a tank for my KT250.

I think Dick Mann has used 6061 for dirt bike tanks.  It will be harder to form and may not be very friendly for tight radii, but for a simple dirt bike tank shape it probably adds some useful dent resistance especially in thinner gauges.

Evan Wilcox uses 1100 in .080" thickness but then his tanks have a lot of shape to them and he delivers everything fully polished so he likes having the extra material for the sanding/polishing.  He uses 1100 because with 1100 wire the welds will not be visible when polished.  1100 wire with 3003 can be slightly visible.

1.5mm /16g thickness is pretty standard unless you are building a one-season tank for someone who doesn't fall down, in which case you could go down a gauge. 

cheers,
Michael

Offline Branchy

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 06:56:14 am »
thanks michael thanks great info, i am in the pattern stage at this time and will be sourcing product soon. 
i am attempting to build a tank for my yamaha wr500 which it seems that they are dam hard to find if not impossible , branchy
maybe a trip to gloucester for those boy'z really know how to throw a party ps dont mention dungog (must be some old footy rivalry)

Offline Paul552

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 08:54:30 am »
Hey Branchy a guy on here KDX175 cast (yes cast) a KDX tank. 
It looked good and from memory was not crazy heavy.
 
Drop him a pm maybe it helps you.

'77 YZ125D '84 CR250RE '89 CR250RK '84 CR80RE  '09 YZ250F

Offline sa63

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 09:24:30 am »
how is 3003  grade?

Offline Michael Moore

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 11:26:22 am »
If you register at

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/index.php

and

http://allmetalshaping.com/

you'll get access to a wealth of panel-beating experience and knowledge.

Here's a link to matweb's specs on 1100-O temper

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=db0307742df14c8f817bd8d62207368e&ckck=1

and to 3003-O

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=fd4a40f87d3f4912925e5e6eab1fbc40

you can see that 3003 has a yield of 38Mpa at 100c and 1100 is 32Mpa, while 1100 is slightly more ductile, but with 40+% elongation that's not an issue.

cheers,
Michael


Offline sa63

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 07:17:21 pm »
Sorry Michael I skimmed through your post and didn't see what you wrote prior re 3003. I'd like to have a go at al. side plates,and 3003 is readily available over here, but not 1100 in 1.5 mm

Offline Michael Moore

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 01:54:13 am »
No problem, matweb is a very useful resource that everyone should know about.

cheers,
Michael

Offline GMC

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 10:00:42 am »
Can’t say I have come across 3003 or 1100 while working in the trade.
5005 & 5356 are the common grades here in Aust.

Looking through the matweb site (it does seem a good site for info) 5005 & 3003 look to be almost identical in physical properties.

5005 is used for a lot of fabrication work where bending is required and strength isn’t overly important.
5356 has more strength than 5005 and will be a bit harder to work into shape although normal bending should be fine.

I have some plans to build some tanks in the future and I would just be using the 5005 in 2mm (0.80”)

As mentioned you can polish the bejeezus out of it but it is also more forgiving when welding and be more resistant to dents from knees.
The 2mm will fold fine but just be harder to form any dome type shapes.

I slapped this one together in a hurry back in 87



It’s a bit crude actually but it did the job at the time.
I think I used 1.5mm 5005 at the time.
It ended up lighter than the plastic tank by a couple of ounces despite it holding nearly 3 litres more than stock.
I wasn’t chasing lightness at the time and it actually cracked a couple of times on me. Once at the Pyrenees Enduro after a big get off that also cracked the radiator. I managed to nurse it home for a finish by convincing myself that the leaking radiator would put out any fires from the leaking tank.

One thing a hated on that tank was the left side lower forward seam, it was too sharp and would rub on my leg, if I was to make another I would try to roll the bottom edge and have the seam under the tank instead of on the corner.
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Offline John Orchard

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 10:47:44 am »
Wow, inbetween all the petty crap that goes on in here, when you knowledgeable chaps put forward these informative posts I am impressed, thanks.  The older I get, the more I realize how little I know.
Johnny O - Tahition_Red factory rider.

Offline Slakewell

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 12:36:51 pm »
If you need a custom tank talk to Scott at Scotty's choppers at Uralla NSW the guy is true artist.  He has the right gear. I used to play Golf with him.
Current bikes. KTM MC 250 77 Husky CR 360 77, Husky 82 420 Auto Bitsa XR 200 project. Dont need a pickle just need to ride my motorcickle

Offline Lozza

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 12:48:44 pm »
Geoff you can buy 1.2mm sheet of 1111 in O condition here. There is a small catch is that you need to buy a  tonne of.it.  ;D Was only $1500 but shipping was the killer  ;D Which is why I never mentioned it.
Jesus only loves two strokes

Offline GMC

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 01:53:30 pm »
Yes you can get anything here if you buy enough of it. I bought a mill run of structural grade extrusion that I use on my swingarms for the HL’s because it wasn’t available off the shelf here, that was a big hit on the finances around 14 -15 years ago and I am just now getting down to the last pieces of it.

But for an alloy tank you don’t need a ‘special’ grade.

If you’ve ever moved from company to company you will have found that different firms do things in different ways, Countries do things differently as well, not always in a backward or forward way but often just a sideways step. For whatever reason it appears that in the US 3003 is quite common while 5005 is common over here, no doubt they have different advantages but they will behave in a similar manner.

Don’t kid yourself that because you’ve read on a US site that something is done a particular way it can’t be done another way.

Welding gas is another prime example, TIG welding can be done with either Helium or Argon. I think from memory Helium burns a bit hotter.
Argon is the common gas in Aust. whereas I am led to believe the Helium is the common gas in the US, hence the term Heliarc. While Heliarc is actually a trade name for a brand of welder is also is used to describe a TIG weld.
I was told many years back that we use the different gases due to economics of the gas, Helium is plentiful in North America while Argon is plentiful down here.
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Offline 500Fool

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Re: Fuel tank building question
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 02:28:02 pm »
Don’t kid yourself that because you’ve read on a US site that something is done a particular way it can’t be done another way.

Welding gas is another prime example, TIG welding can be done with either Helium or Argon. I think from memory Helium burns a bit hotter.
Or instead of Tig you could use Oxy, haven't seen that done in a while.