Author Topic: Rulebook adjustments  (Read 21056 times)

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Offline holeshot buddy

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #90 on: July 20, 2008, 08:55:03 pm »
your getting off track here, on most
club days it does not matter if you want to boost classes
or whatever or mix and match depending on numbers
but state and national should be entered in the right class
which means nominating for the correct class
the husky 250 wc would be pre 85 even with twin shocks
the argument about more rides is silly ::)
if you wanted to ride up in another class
what about the person in pre 85
they cant ride down can they
so do they miss out
shaun won the evo and pre 85 on a maico
but i bet no pre 85 riders could ride down in evo class :'(
it has to be a fair system as specially nationals and state titles




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Offline Nathan S

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #91 on: July 21, 2008, 11:56:41 am »
For perusal and comment. How would this sit with the general public? A bit of a less is more look at things.

Evolution Class- General
• Evolution class shall be run as a national championship and can be independent of other classic motocross classes.
Evolution Class- Eligibility
• Modifications converting later equipment to comply will not be allowed
• Machines eligible to compete in Pre78 (or earlier) are not eligible to compete in Evolution.
• All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured.
       o No linkage suspension
       o No Disc brakes
       o Air cooled motors
Classes
• Solo 125cc
• Solo 250cc
• Solo 263cc and over
Age Group
• No age group classes will be run at National Championships


Pre 1985 Class - General
• Pre 85 class can be run as a National Championship, and can be independent of other classes
Pre 85 Eligibility
• Acceptable machines for pre 85 are machines built up to and including the 1984 models.
  The only exception to this GCR is where the model remains unaltered after this date.
  The onus of proof of eligibility shall rest wholly on the rider or entrant of this machine.
• The rear suspension must be of a linkage design.
• Modifications using later equipment are not allowed.
• All components will be of the period the machine was manufactured.
Classes
• Solo 125cc
• Solo 250cc
• Solo 263cc and over
Age Group
• No age group classes will be run at National Championships


Bahnsy, I like the way you're thinking.
My thoughts:
1. I agree with NR, Ross, etc in saying that older bikes should only be excluded from newer classes at National events. HEAVEN effectively keeps the pre-78 and post-77 groups seperate, but you can still ride up an era within those groups (eg: Ride a pre-70 bike in pre-75).

2. You've perpetuated one of the current dramas with the definition of Evo - you've assumed that Evo bikes are of a particular age. As the rules are written 2009 model bike with drum brakes, non-linkage suspension and air cooling is Evo legal - regardless of whether we like it or not.
So any reference to the 'era' of an Evo bike is meaningless, unless you define that Evo bikes are made before 1985 AND have no linkage, air cooling, drum brakes (or are an unchanged carry-over model).
We all have this understanding that 'Evo is the era before pre-85', but in reality, this isn't stated anywhere. Evo-legal bikes were made from the dawn of time through to very recently. The rules need to recognise this, one way or another.

3. If you want to keep Evo-legal bikes out of the Pre-85 class, you simply need to state that: "No bikes that are eligible for the Evo class may be entered as pre-85 bikes", rather than specifying stuff like "must have linkage rear suspension".
That saves dramas with bikes like the YZ125H, 84 Husky CR250, etc.
Again, HEAVEN has a workable solution: They allow Evo bikes in the pre-85 capacity races, but also run an exclusive pre-85 class (refer also to my point #1).

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline Husky500evo

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #92 on: July 29, 2008, 11:13:21 pm »
     I think that you should be allowed to ride a pre '78 bike in evo , or an evo bike in pre '85 , even at a state or national title meeting . Just as long as you only nominate in that class & have the correct Z , X or Y prefix on your number plates for that particular class .
     Now that the works replica thread is dying down a bit , I thought that I might bring up some other suggestions which are sure to ruffle a few feathers . Even though pre '85 & evo classes need to build up their numbers a bit ( especially 125 classes ) , I think that the pre '78 & earlier classes national title meeting should be run on a different weekend to the evo & pre '85 classes . I am not trying to be divisive, as I own & race 250 & open pre '75 , pre '78 & evo class bikes . I would like the opportunity to ride all of these bikes in their respective national title classes , but you would have to be superhuman to do it at the one meeting . The Coffs nats seemed to have a fairly full program just catering for pre '78 & earlier bikes . Also I think that the pre '75 & earlier bikes require a different track setup to the evo & later bikes . The pre '78 bikes are a bit more flexible in that they can handle either track setup .
     I would also like to see an evolution 4 stroke class where all the HLs , KLXs , Husky 510s & hybrid thumpers could compete . I am sure that I will be criticised for these ideas , but I think that this forum is the ideal place to discuss them .

Offline Brian Watson

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2008, 04:22:10 pm »
Pardon me gents...the idea (I believe) of introducing Pre '78 and '85 was (apart from rider interest) to highlight the development stages of the motorcycles. To allow (at National Title level) a pre '75 bike to compete in the pre '78 class is defeating the intent of the class. Yeh...I know it is great to see a young guy on a pre '70 bike kick the pre '78 guys and then for a pre '78 bike to kick the pre '85 class..Woohoo!!..BUT ..it goes against the intent of the class..Showcase the different "eras" in their own races ..not mix and match... If clubs at state level mix them up ..then OK..but not at National Titles..
 :)

Offline Wombat

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2008, 07:16:14 pm »
..Showcase the different "eras" in their own races ..not mix and match... If clubs at state level mix them up ..then OK..but not at National Titles..
 :)
AHA!! I read all the posts but still didn't fully appreciate the problem/issue over an older bike riding 'up a class'.
Thanks for this; 'Showcase the different eras' put the missing piece into the jigsaw for me. :-[ ;D
"Whadaya mean it's too loud?! It's a f*ckin' race bike!! That pipe makes it go louder - and look faster!!"

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #95 on: July 31, 2008, 02:51:00 pm »
I think I agree with H5E.

I think I agree with Yammiefan too...


I don't have a problem with people riding up an era at National level, provided they only ride up an era on that particular bike. The solution is probably to have a rule similar to the one the historic road racers have, along the lines of 'A machine's age will be determined by its newest major component'. It may be worth adding something like "and it will run in the oldest era it is eligible for".

Having said that, I seem to recall there being a bit of a kerfuffle at a recent HRR Nationals because one bike had two different era log books, depending on which fairing was fitted at the time. I don't actually see how this is a problem, but I don't know enough about the particular case to dream of understanding the finer points...


The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

worms

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #96 on: August 01, 2008, 06:08:14 am »
just on the evo , pre 85 thing.i was wondering, can you race a formula 3 car in formula 1, i dont think so,very close in technology though. i think the way forward is by Date of manufacture not whether it has this or that, if it's modified you have to prove it's still period equipment for that era,maybe 1978 to 1981 for evo and up to 1981 to 1984 for pre 85. as for riding up a class, give it a rest and be content with your era specific bikes and ride the classes avaiable to you, club days dont matter but at a national championship one bike one class should apply as you go to these events to compete not see how many laps you get.

just my thoughts, i will get back in my box now :)

Cheers Trev

Offline NR555

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Re: Rulebook adjustments
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2008, 11:33:16 am »
just on the evo , pre 85 thing.i was wondering, can you race a formula 3 car in formula 1, i dont think so,very close in technology though. i think the way forward is by Date of manufacture not whether it has this or that, if it's modified you have to prove it's still period equipment for that era,maybe 1978 to 1981 for evo and up to 1981 to 1984 for pre 85. as for riding up a class, give it a rest and be content with your era specific bikes and ride the classes avaiable to you, club days dont matter but at a national championship one bike one class should apply as you go to these events to compete not see how many laps you get.

just my thoughts, i will get back in my box now :)

Cheers Trev

Formula 3 close to F1 in technology... ?!?!  What era are you referring to?!   ???

They are poles apart - the only similarity is physical resemblance.