Author Topic: Where is the next breaking point?  (Read 46704 times)

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Offline firko

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #90 on: October 21, 2013, 10:32:14 am »
I'm not going to get into any more pissing contests. I've clearly made my points so I'm not going to keep repeating myself any more..............Davey's correct though, and I can feel a new era emerging here in NSW, there are too many people who care for it not to gain new momentum. The doom and gloom must stop now!
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Offline Nathan S

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2013, 11:04:13 am »
1 History shows as newer eras come in, earlier classes drop out. Fortunately the "split"at national level, together with some forward thinking clubs, is reversing this trend.
You have the efrontary to use this years 2013 Classic Nats, compared with the 2012 record as an example of the "dire straits" of CMX. Sorry to prick your bubble but with a week to go for late entries the numbers arent far short of Crystal Brook ( which all who went judged to be a great success) which included Evo and Pre85. Which means of course that Classic numbers have increased.Also half the classes show an increase over 2012. We won't achieve 2012 level, but this has been achieved in 6 weeks, at the wrong end of a busy season.
2 Full potential is of course a movable target. Why put a defined limit to growth?
3 Because the under subscribed classes need to be nurtured back to health, not swpt away.
   Last year we had a championship class of Pre60, the first in a long time. This year that class has increased.
4 "We" are getting out there and promoting our sport and organising events.

Somehow I get the feeling that this is a wasted excercise, but being an optimist one can but hope.

1. Nobody wants to "sweep away" any classes.
You also contradicted yourself in saying that newer classes hurt the older classes, but that they don't...
What I can say without equivocation, is that LOTS of people get involved for a particular era, and then discover/build an interest in other (usually older) eras.
For me, Pre-70 and Pre-78 weren't even on my radar until I got involved. A good mate was the same - he took some persuasion to get on a Pre-90 bike, but now owns Pre-75, Pre-78, Evo and Pre-85 bikes...

2. Nobody has ever suggested limiting growth. My point was that Firko repeatedly sets "Pre-85 needs to reach its potential" as a goal, without even the vaguest hint of what he thinks its potential is.

3. Your answer deliberately ignores the point I was making. It's GREAT that the older classes are growing again, but Firko (and others) never seem to mention them unless its to object to Pre-85, Pre-90 or now Pre-95.
Regardless: The existence of Pre-95 is unrelated to the health of Pre-65.

4. "We" are doing a shithouse job of promotion. Most clubs do a pretty good job given the resources available to them, but the sport of VMX as a whole seems intent on being invisible.
It's no co-incidence that VMX's boom time was when the only major magazine featured a regular VMX column and regular VMX features. Dirt Action picked up the ball that post-GE ADB dropped, but it was clear that Ashenhurst's enthusiasm was short of GE's passion - and we're still talking about something that waned and died nearly 15 years ago...
I can't recall the last time I saw a VMX article in a mainstream dirtbike magazine - probably SideTrack in the early 00s, for crying out loud.

Vinduro, on the other hand, has a far greater mainstream presence with semi-regular articles in TrailZone and Old Bike. Is the growth of Vinduro and its relatively high levels of publicity a complete co-incidence?

Similarly, see if you can find a public reference to the 2013 PCMXNs outside of this forum, the MA website, or in AJ's column in the back of VMX magazine.
I know of/can find a grand total of ONE reference to that event - a thread that I started on a modern dirt bike forum.
Unless you were already actively involved in VMX, that event was completely invisible.

I've seen the ads in VMX Mag for the Connondale Classic and the Qld hosted Nats - such publicity is not the only thing that makes these events a success, but it certainly is one of the things.


"We" do a pretty good job of preaching to the converted, but we do a shithouse job of letting the rest of the world know we exist.

None of this is an argument against Pre-95 either, BTW.

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2013, 11:19:18 am »

"We" do a pretty good job of preaching to the converted, but we do a shithouse job of letting the rest of the world know we exist.

This i agree with completely , but it would be nice if i could offer a solution rather than just agree  ::)

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #93 on: October 21, 2013, 11:40:23 am »
There's 2 kinds of people.....
The finger pointers....
And the workers...
There's obviously more finger pointers in the so called States that aren't fairing to well.
You only get out of something what you put in.
If there are problems then the solution is to work harder (not point the finger harder)
Where I'm at we have lots of hard workers...and that's why where successful.
Couldn't be more simpler. ;)

Like your bushfire comment, you just showed how poorly you know me, Davey.

I've put in plenty of years to being a worker for motorsport: my club committee, the State Council, the local championship committee, the state advisory panel, the AASA working group, numerous submissions, helping at events, helping to organise events, as well as being a competitor.

You will not find anyone from any of my motorsport involvement who will be able to give you an example of me welching on my responsibilities or "being a finger pointer".


The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #94 on: October 21, 2013, 12:12:49 pm »

"We" do a pretty good job of preaching to the converted, but we do a shithouse job of letting the rest of the world know we exist.

This i agree with completely , but it would be nice if i could offer a solution rather than just agree  ::)

I'm far from an expert - hopefully someone out there has more knowledge (that's you Tony), and can offer a better insight.
We should beware of expecting big results instantly. Having Dirt Action print the guts of one press release once should not be expected to double entries overnight, for example. It needs to be viewed as an on-going commitment too (not for any one person, but for the sport as a whole).

Similarly, we need to do things well in advance - published media has a lead-time, and punters need time to get their head around an idea.

My thoughts are that mainstream dirtbike media offers the best value for our money/time.

We could do with a far better on-line presence. These forums and the various club websites are great for the nitty gritty stuff, but I think there would be a benefit from a relatively simple "shiny things" website for the basics - event dates, event flyers, links to the clubs' websites, etc.

Most magazines will consider running unsolicited articles on events, providing they are of decent quality and they get enough good quality photos. I reckon I could manage the first bit, definitely can't help with the second.

Press releases are fairly easy to get into the specialist media, and are relatively easy way to get coverage to get into the mainstream (dirtbike) media.

Fliers are very useful. Heaven does this very well, but I dont know how far or wide those fliers are spread.
It wouldn't take many people to print out a few and take them to their local bike shops, in the month or two before an event.

There's more, but that's the guts of what I see as being the main things.

Do MA offer any help with publicity for big events?

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline supersenior 50

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #95 on: October 21, 2013, 02:33:47 pm »
F !!!. No further comment other than 2013 CMX Nats fliers went out to 200 email addresses with the request to print and distribuite. A further 100 hard copies have been distribuited.
I'll not waste any more time on this fruitless excercise, I have a Nationals to organise.

Offline JohnnyO

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #96 on: October 21, 2013, 02:44:31 pm »
F !!!. No further comment other than 2013 CMX Nats fliers went out to 200 email addresses with the request to print and distribuite. A further 100 hard copies have been distribuited.
I'll not waste any more time on this fruitless excercise, I have a Nationals to organise.
You're doing a great job Col leading by example with no bullshit. We need more like you!

Offline firko

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2013, 02:59:01 pm »
Quote
You're doing a great job Col leading by example with no bullshit. We need more like you!
I couldn't agree more John. Colin hasn't been in the best of health in recent times but still does more than 10 people half his age.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 03:02:31 pm by firko »
'68 Yamaha DT1 enduro, '69 Yamaha 'DT1 from Hell' '69 DT1'Dunger from Hell, '69 Cheney Yamaha 360, 70 Maico 350 (2 off), '68 Hindall Ducati 250, Hindall RT2MX, Hindall YZ250a , Cycle Factory RT2MX flat tracker, Yamaha 1T250J, Maico 250 trials, '71, Boyd and Stellings TM400, Shell OW72,750 Yamaha

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #98 on: October 21, 2013, 03:04:41 pm »
To be fair i dont think anyone including Nathan is suggesting that you haven't done a great job saving the CMX nats COL
The fact that you have pulled it off at such short notice is awesome  :) and full credit to you .

But he has a point about the general lack of exposure of ANY VMX event to the general public or any real world exposure outside of those of us already playing in the sandpit .

The biggest form of exposure to the general public currently is forums like this.

Getting events into VMX mag is all very nice but its preaching to the Choir, getting spectators to events and mainstream media will help events grow and secure the future of what were doing .

Offline Nathan S

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #99 on: October 21, 2013, 03:07:25 pm »
F !!!. No further comment other than 2013 CMX Nats fliers went out to 200 email addresses with the request to print and distribuite. A further 100 hard copies have been distribuited.
I'll not waste any more time on this fruitless excercise, I have a Nationals to organise.

Why the hell are you so eager to take everything personally?!

Have a look at what I wrote - I've repeatedly used Qld as an example of doing it properly.

Edit: plus what Bill said.

The good thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said.

Offline Ted

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #100 on: October 21, 2013, 05:20:18 pm »
I would have thought the recent bike show at Suttos would have been the perfect venue to push the Post 85 bikes. Apart from Shaun Galloway's efforts ( as always ) I can't recall any others.

I guess you reap what you sow
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Offline Slakewell

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #101 on: October 21, 2013, 06:10:52 pm »
Most Mags will publish a well written press release. Problem is most of us have no idea how write one correctly.
We dont even do the Nat results with a few pictures for mags like AMCN. Mags love good free content that they can just copy paste in the news section.
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Offline Nathan S

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #102 on: October 21, 2013, 06:49:08 pm »
Ted, The publicity stuff is not for ANY era particularly - it is about the sport as a whole.



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Offline Ted

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #103 on: October 21, 2013, 07:34:03 pm »
When you read about the recent failures, Tasmania ( logistical costs ) Lakes ( no camping ) CD ( shit track ) Canberra ( no track at all ) these things have to be considered before we declare doom and gloom on VMX.

I really can't see too much wrong with VMX. All clubs seem to have very well attended meets. In saying that though I reckon it has a use by date. The young guys just aren't interested in what we do, which was made quite evident to me at Suttos show.

As we get older i think we will see a massive shift in favour of Vinduro. Maybe not so with the 10% that win everything but with the other 90% that just want to have a ride. It is non competitive, f..k all rules, cheaper and you get unlimited riding time.

Just my take on it

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Offline JohnnyO

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Re: Where is the next breaking point?
« Reply #104 on: October 21, 2013, 09:27:11 pm »
When you read about the recent failures, Tasmania ( logistical costs ) Lakes ( no camping ) CD ( shit track ) Canberra ( no track at all ) these things have to be considered before we declare doom and gloom on VMX.

I really can't see too much wrong with VMX. All clubs seem to have very well attended meets. In saying that though I reckon it has a use by date. The young guys just aren't interested in what we do, which was made quite evident to me at Suttos show.

As we get older i think we will see a massive shift in favour of Vinduro. Maybe not so with the 10% that win everything but with the other 90% that just want to have a ride. It is non competitive, f..k all rules, cheaper and you get unlimited riding time.

Just my take on it
I reckon you're on the money there with most things Ted, dunno about the Vinduro part though.
You're reasons for the event cancellations are spot on even though the organisers of those events and others on here don't accept that, they were the reasons most Queenslanders weren't interested in going.
You can be sure that next years Post Classic Nats at Echo Valley with camping available will be a success and the same for Classic Dirt if it ends up back in Qld.
So you're right Ted there really isn't too much wrong with VMX...