What bikes are eligible for what classes

[Simo63]

With 90+ Evo bikes entered at the Conondale classic the class is not suffering by rule book wording..

Intersting you should mention the Classic JO, The 2nd round on Sat Arvo, I was sitting on the grid waiting for an injured rider to be removed from the course and chatting to the people around me when I noticed the guy next to me on a YZ250G or H had 83 front end fitted with the horizontal lugged twin brake.  As he was a younger guy and I though he might not know better I did mention to him that whilst it was no problem for me and for where he was today, if he showed up at the PC Nationals he would not be able to ride with those forks in the evo class.  As you'd expect, he wasn't interested and just said "oh well, they can protest me" to which I responded, "no you don't understand, you probably won't get to ride it in the class as they will not allow it.  No protesting if you aren't riding it"

Anyway, he was a bit faster than I was so I suspect those adjustable, late model, non class complaint forks were a real advantage and allowed him to get on the throttle faster than me 

Should have protested the whipper snapper 

[FourstrokeForever]

Hey Guys.

At the risk of getting the thread back on track......

I've been riding the earlier classes, pre75 and recently pre78 and have now decided to pull my CR250RZ out of mothballs and take it for a run or 10. Its been a Lounge Queen for far too long.

It has 43mm Showa forks with TLS front brake. It also has the factory works replica type swingarm.

Question: Is this setup legal for Evolution racing?

Any sensible help will be appreciated.

Cheers,
Mark

[Nathan S]

Not once have you said you are going to do anything about it. I think it's because you are getting so much milage on here. It's nothing more than trolling. For the fifth time on this thread I will say to do something about it. You say you have tried before on here and no one wants anything to do with it. That in itself says a lot for others mind set. Still, you have the issue, you do something about it.
I would also hate it if the rules were changed in such a fashion you had to run it past a freaking lawyer to understand it. Now that would not inspire any new comers.

The thing I keep banging on about is making clear and concise - not 500 pages, and not requiring a law degree to understand. There's no point in rewriting them to make them less clear and/or more wordy.

What do you think [utl=http://forum.ozvmx.com/index.php?topic=30510.0]this[/url] is about?

The problem with rewriting rules is that there's two parts. You need a PERFECT understanding of the intent and detail of the current wording, and then be able to express them more clearly.
I reckon I can do the second bit, but it seems that nobody (not even Firko or Tanner) has the 100% complete understanding of the details.

[Nathan S]

TBM, you'll get both answers on the forks/front brake, but the concencus is that they're not OK.
That said, I've seen plenty of Evo Hondas turn up and race without issue using those parts.

Swingarm is also vague. If its a perfectly accurate replica of the works part, you're good.
If its an RB swingarm that's been tweaked, then the strict argument says it is a later part that's been converted (and therefore not OK).
Again, experience says that you wouldn't be Christopher Colombus if you ran it on an Evo bike.

[Simo63]

Hey Guys.

At the risk of getting the thread back on track......

I've been riding the earlier classes, pre75 and recently pre78 and have now decided to pull my CR250RZ out of mothballs and take it for a run or 10. Its been a Lounge Queen for far too long.

It has 43mm Showa forks with TLS front brake. It also has the factory works replica type swingarm.

Question: Is this setup legal for Evolution racing?

Any sensible help will be appreciated.

Cheers,
Mark

Mark

From what I know and from the research I have done it would not be Evo Eligible.  Recently I was looking to buy a very nice CR250RA that had the 83 model 43mm forks and twin leader fitted.  When I asked around about eligibility I was told that it would not be Evo eligible.  So I purchased a nice YZ250H for half the price knowing it is evo eligible.

Cheers
Craig

[Sorelegs11]

Nobody cares if your rig has a few "illegal" parts on it until you start winning. 

[JohnnyO]

TBM going by the rule book you can run 43mm YZ250/465H forks and brake but not CR. having said that I've seen a few Showa 43mm front ends in Evo.
Depends how strict the scrutineers is..

[JohnnyO]

Nobody cares if your rig has a few "illegal" parts on it until you start winning. 

That is probably the truth..

[firko]

TBM going by the rule book you can run 43mm YZ250/465H forks and brake but not CR. having said that I've seen a few Showa 43mm front ends in Evo.
Depends how strict the scrutineers is.. 

I've seen them as well but that doesn't make it right. Our old mate Magoo had 43mm CR Honda forks in his RZ and it was a continuous "discussion" between us as to their legality. His excuse was always...."nobody will care or notice, I'm not a winner anyway" accompanied by a wink and a shoulder shrug. If they'd been Yamaha Showa forks I wouldn't have cared. Points like this have to be enforced or racers will keep fudging until we find 'em running 50mm Marzocchi's because "nobody will care or notice".

[Graeme M]

I know I'm gonna regret this. I usually keep out of these discussions for a few reasons such as I know diddly squat about the details and don't care either. But I gotta ask. What is this business re angled and horizontal fork lugs on YZ forks?

Just an opinion here and in no way meant to question the current rules nor to propose a new rule, just an opinion. But given 'Evo' is meant to represent a sort of period, why the angst? There used to be a Pre 80 class but that sort of didn't quite fit the spirit or technology of the time. Evo on the other hand spans the 1978-1985 period, ie when bikes were 'evolving' from twin shock short travel to long travel, single shock bikes with disks and watercooling etc. I think there were twin shock aircooled bikes up to about 84 weren't there?

So isn't the better option to suggest that Evo embraces all bikes that were production based and manufactured before 1985 and marketed as 1984 or earlier models with drums, air cooling and twin shocks. Any period component may be fitted (with period therefore being Pre 85).

That way if you want to bung a 1983 CR500 motor in an RZ frame or use 43mm Showa forks from an 83 you can. Because you could have back in the day.

What's wrong with that? No-one can use a 50mm Marzocchi for the simple reason there weren't any. Or have I completely lost the plot here?

[Mick D]

I know I'm gonna regret this. But I gotta ask. What is this business re angled and horizontal fork lugs on YZ forks?

The horizontal anti rotation Lug was used on later model Yamaha machines which were also fitted with linkage rear ends. So therefore they are not from an EVO class machine.

Where as the Lug at 45 degrees angle was from Evo class machines. Although they were Mono-shock, they did not have linkage shock attachment.

[JohnnyO]

I know I'm gonna regret this. I usually keep out of these discussions for a few reasons such as I know diddly squat about the details and don't care either. But I gotta ask. What is this business re angled and horizontal fork lugs on YZ forks?

Just an opinion here and in no way meant to question the current rules nor to propose a new rule, just an opinion. But given 'Evo' is meant to represent a sort of period, why the angst? There used to be a Pre 80 class but that sort of didn't quite fit the spirit or technology of the time. Evo on the other hand spans the 1978-1985 period, ie when bikes were 'evolving' from twin shock short travel to long travel, single shock bikes with disks and watercooling etc. I think there were twin shock aircooled bikes up to about 84 weren't there?

So isn't the better option to suggest that Evo embraces all bikes that were production based and manufactured before 1985 and marketed as 1984 or earlier models with drums, air cooling and twin shocks. Any period component may be fitted (with period therefore being Pre 85).

That way if you want to bung a 1983 CR500 motor in an RZ frame or use 43mm Showa forks from an 83 you can. Because you could have back in the day.

What's wrong with that? No-one can use a 50mm Marzocchi for the simple reason there weren't any. Or have I completely lost the plot here?

Probably not a bad idea Graeme but from what I experienced in England the twin shock class is now mainly made up of later model reed valve Maicos, CR480 engined Hondas, RM500 engines in RM400 chassis and new Maico Racebase frames fitted with CR480, YZ490 and RM500 engines.
A std 490 Maico, RM400T and YZ465 don't cut it over there.. Is that really what we want?

[JohnnyO]

I know I'm gonna regret this. But I gotta ask. What is this business re angled and horizontal fork lugs on YZ forks?

The horizontal anti rotation Lug was used on later model Yamaha machines which were also fitted with linkage rear ends. So therefore they are not from an EVO class machine.

Where as the Lug at 45 degrees angle was from Evo class machines. Although they were Mono-shock, they did not have linkage shock attachment.

It's not just the fact that the lug is horizontal on the later forks but the complete axle mounts are shrunk onto the forks compared to the G/H models being cast into the fork leg giving it a completely different appearance to the Evo forks.

[Lozza]

The rules are wide open to this, a modern Vincent, complies with the rules 100%

Think this is a earlier version

Vincent 1000

Given the Horner Bros have time, money and a large CNC workshop at their disposal, there is nothing in the rules to stop anyone doing the same for Evo.

[Graeme M]

Nice Vincent. I like the evolution of that thing, but agree it is probably outside the spirit of the rules?

Probably not a bad idea Graeme but from what I experienced in England the twin shock class is now mainly made up of later model reed valve Maicos, CR480 engined Hondas, RM500 engines in RM400 chassis and new Maico Racebase frames fitted with CR480, YZ490 and RM500 engines.
A std 490 Maico, RM400T and YZ465 don't cut it over there.. Is that really what we want?

welll....  I guess that could be managed by noting that while suspension component swaps within the era are permitted, engines and frames must be as originally fitted to the production machine. Given we can whack $2000 remote reservoir shocks onto a 1979 RM400, does it matter if a 1980 YZ250 ends up with 84 model forks?

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail this into yet more labyrinthine wanderings, I just hadn't heard of the lugs thing. To be honest, it never occurred to me that slipping a set of late model forks off say an 'L' 250 onto an HL500 for example was not a good thing (presuming that an HL500 represents a 1978/79 type motorcycle with SLS front brake and 38mm forks)