When can I come to CD?

[Nathan S]

Perhaps, the marginalisation of pre-90 at events like CD and by clubs like Heaven is a significant factor in limiting the growth of the category?

Just not sure how excluding pre-90 bikes and their riders helps the event, or the magazine?

[TM BILL]

Good thought Bill and I can see the argument for the "gatecrash" version of what is happening.

I have been involved for three years having not raced VMX before and I just cannot get head around the Pre-85 or die mentality.

There is no Pre-95 scene that I am aware of and no one is advocating one.  What I do know is there is a valid amount of riders just running Pre-90 in Vic, NSW, QLD and Worldwide. These are guy's that have restored, customised and adhered to an era of VMX but at celebration of VMX,  get told we don't want you.

Correct me if I am wrong but most other countries extend even further than Pre-90. So for CD in particular why would you want to keep this racing class away from a celebration of VMX....??

So I am not so much of a Pre-90 advocate as someone that is having trouble understanding the reluctance of the "majority" to embrace someone with a bike that is at worst 5 years newer and has racing in the spirit of VMX for the last 3 years?
Mr VMX is one of the best events I have been to .... didn't see too many people giving us death stares at the Pre-90 start line in either of the last two years?

Maybe I will just have log back in in 5 years and see if the sport is going to progress or stay in the Rick Astley era for ever?

The above sentence is important
 "majority" to embrace someone with a bike that is at worst 5 years newer and has racing in the spirit of VMX for the last 3 years ?"

I think that when VMX was introduced in Australasia it was deemed to be Pre 75 therefore the latest bike being a 1974 model  When you factor that into your sentence a 1989 bike is actually 30 yrs newer than a bike entering the pre 60 class . pre 78, Evo and pre 85 have already been adopted by many clubs since the beginning .

Not Anti Pre 90 in fact I think there are some cool bikes of that era , but patience Grasshopper 

Nathan I guarantee once you get pre 90 established as the norm in VMX and Vinduro you will be the forking poster boy for pre 95 , pre 2000 etc etc 

[XR]

I don't think you would find too many people complaining about pre 90 bikes at a non competitive event like CD.
But there has to be a line in the sand or it would be an all in mess, and in this case the organizers have chosen 1985.
HBBB is the same and it works for them. As Bill said if they let pre 90 in you will open the door for pre 95 and so on.
It's a pre 85 event.....and always has been
And apparently thats how they want to keep it.

[Simo63]

There is no Pre-95 scene that I am aware of and no one is advocating one. 

Go back 10 years and there was no Pre 90 either.  And I think pre 85 was a bit on the nose in some circles. (still is in a club up this way at the moment).

Look I'm not having a go at pre 90 (god I have 1 or 2 of these bikes myself and really enjoyed racing my 89 CR250 last weekend at the Classic) but I will say that these things change over time as is the natural progression of things.  In my humble opinion, pre 90 is just starting to be popular and in 10 years time it will be a very accepted part of the sport and pre 95 might be banging on the door??  Who knows but it's likely we will have this same discussion then 

That's my 5.5 cents worth (must include GST remember)

[Ted]

Does anybody know what year Heaven started?

Was it Pre 75 only?

What years were Pre 78, EVO , Pre 85 and Four Stroke admitted?

[TM BILL]

VMXWA is a great example of not forking with things and how successful they remain . Pre 75 since the off and still Pre 75 and still very very successful 

[3858]

Great discussion and I am becoming calmer as I realize it all boils down to definitions....

Most people are happy to define VMX as Pre-85 and new comers like myself and a minority of others would like to define it as Pre-90....

Pretty simple I guess.....

I do know that the combined events we have had with Heaven have been some of the best times I have had on a bike ... Lakes last year and Glenbourne this.... So the point is that involvement does help Shaun...

As you (Bill) say maybe it is a matter of patience and as time goes on more people will embrace Pre90 as part of the definition.

[Nathan S]

What do we gain by waiting?

The act of delaying newer era classes dooms them to mediocrity, by ensuring that the age-group of people most attached to the era are "off the curve" of active participation.

I get the "VMX was originally created for short travel bikes" argument, but its no coincidence that VMX was at its strongest when the bikes were ~20 years old: the people with a passion for the pre-75 era were ~40, and were in that happy window of (most people) being financially stable, having family stuff under control, and still young/fit/enthusiastic enough to go racing.

The time for pre-95 is now.

Pre-75 was started at the ideal time to maximise its potential.
Pre-80/Evo snuck in, just in time.
Pre-70 was left a bit too late.
We left pre-85 too late.
We left pre-78 too way late.
We left pre-90 too late.
These classes will NEVER reach "their full potential" because we never gave them a proper chance.
If we leave pre-95 too late, then it will be doomed to mediocrity as well - and it will never be able to help support pre-90 and the older eras.

[Nathan S]

Does anybody know what year Heaven started?

Was it Pre 75 only?

What years were Pre 78, EVO , Pre 85 and Four Stroke admitted?

Late 90s - 1998 if I recall.
It was Evo from the start, and they fully anticipated the move to pre-85 from the start - it was always intended to be a progressive VMX club, but that's obviously been lost along the way.

[TM BILL]

What do we gain by waiting?

The act of delaying newer era classes dooms them to mediocrity, by ensuring that the age-group of people most attached to the era are "off the curve" of active participation.

I get the "VMX was original created for short travel bikes" argument, but its no coincidence that VMX was at its strongest when the bikes were ~20 years old: the people with a passion for the pre-75 era were ~40, and were in that happy window of (most people) being financially stable, having family stuff under control, and still young/fit/enthusiastic enough to go racing.

The time for pre-95 is now.
We left pre-85 too late. We left pre-90 too late.
These classes will NEVER reach "their full potential" because we never gave them a proper chance.
If we leave pre-95 too late, then it will be doomed to mediocrity as well - and it will never be able to help support pre-90 and the older eras.
[/qu

Nathan FFS by all means have what ever classes you want but why do you have to impose on current events to do so 
If there is all this support and upswell for later classes then get together with the other like minded souls and run your events for these eras .

If I organise a party for young people I don't hold it down the Darby and Joan with all us old fluckers just because we are already having a grab a granny do on a Thursday night 

That's probably what I don't understand ( although I should as its a reflection of your generation that you always want to piggyback on someone else's hard work rather than  start from scratch and organise your own events .

When I was 18 i wouldn't be seen dead at a Darby and Joan , I would start my own party  am I getting through yet .

[Nathan S]

My point is that its NOT an imposition - especially not at events like CD.
And extra-especially when (in Editor Smith's own estimation) there's going to be hardly any pre-90 bikes there anyhow...

There is no way in hell that a stand-alone one-era-only event could possibly work - the opposite works too: A pre-75-only event would fall flat on its face, even though that class has had twenty five years of work put into it.

You dodged the question: what's to be gained by waiting?

And you lose more points for mis-representing which generation I'm from.

[Nathan S]

Anyone remember the Dick Mann quote from the VMXMag t-shirt?

[Shaun G]

Great discussion and I am becoming calmer as I realize it all boils down to definitions....

I do know that the combined events we have had with Heaven have been some of the best times I have had on a bike ... Lakes last year and Glenbourne this.... So the point is that involvement does help Shaun...

Yes Marty those race events are the right and proper way to generate interest in Pre '90. I will continue to put as much effort as I can into promoting those events to the next generation of VMX'ers.

However my feeling is that CD and HBBB are more akin to festivals where we as a movement celebrate the roots of the sport. I would even go so far as saying Pre '85 is too young for these events but that is how they are and I'm happy to see them stay that way. If you look at the reverse type of situation it's a bit like wanting to have Led Zeppelin play at Stereosonic. Yes it's all music but Led Zep probably don't fit that particular festival.

Cheers
Shaun

 

[Shaun G]

Does anybody know what year Heaven started?

Was it Pre 75 only?

What years were Pre 78, EVO , Pre 85 and Four Stroke admitted?

Ted HEAVEN was started because at the time all there was was Pre '75.

A group of guy's wanted to ride younger bikes so started their own register...sound familiar?

There is some debate around the actual commencement but it was around '99/2000.

Holeshot
Evolution
And
Vintage
Era
National

Cheers
Shaun

[Nathan S]

There is some debate around the actual commencement but it was around '99/2000.

From what I can gather (from reading about it in VMX at the time), the idea started to become reality in mid-late 1998 and the first event was in 99.

My Canowindra 2009 t-shirt says "Celebrating ten years" on it, so that fits...