Are modern mx tracks too dangerous?

[motomaniac]

Mrs Maico54 makes a good point, all tracks have to pass MA scrutinee, however it lands in the laps of those scrutineers to make a track "safe" Many of those same people have possibly never seen a pre 75 (or older) bike , let alone ridden one in anger, and therefore have no idea what is expected. Many of these same folk may never have been to a scramble back in the day and only have 'modern motocross' tracks to compare to. It's all in the perception of what a 'motocross' is.
 Maybe we need to become a "hare scamble" club and race across country in point to point races again

The track at Frankston where our friend was riding has nothing to do with the MA.

[SlideRulz]

All MX tracks are danerous, weren't you listening at your last riders briefing?

[VMX247]

All MX tracks are danerous, weren't you listening at your last riders briefing?

Yes your bike can be broken,smashed or busted up bad 

[mxmaniac]

Im the first to put the bike back on the trailer if i feel im not upto the task of riding the track in my comfort zone. The cost ive forked out to get on there in the first place is going to be a minor loss compared to braining myself in a big way. Its hard when I know i never going to get the seat time to constantly ride them tracks to improve my skills on them
By the feed back im hearing from the club level mxers, is that you need to be pretty well be on your game to consistantly lap around there and there consistatly nearly getting jumped on by the fast boys if they dont jump the jumps
I think broadford, Traralgon and Monza park are good examples of mx tracks for the not so dare develish well monza has a few challenges but not ridiculous steep upramps

[motomaniac]

Im the first to put the bike back on the trailer if i feel im not upto the task of riding the track in my comfort zone. The cost ive forked out to get on there in the first place is going to be a minor loss compared to braining myself in a big way. Its hard when I know i never going to get the seat time to constantly ride them tracks to improve my skills on them
By the feed back im hearing from the club level mxers, is that you need to be pretty well be on your game to consistantly lap around there and there consistatly nearly getting jumped on by the fast boys if they dont jump the jumps
I think broadford, Traralgon and Monza park are good examples of mx tracks for the not so dare develish well monza has a few challenges but not ridiculous steep upramps

Thats it Jimmy. I've been down to Frankston a few times this year but elected not to even unload the bike.I think the last time when I decided to visit Mum instead was the day of a few nasty accidents one of which was the guy that got paralysed.

[KTM47]

I haven't seen MX tracks in other States and also haven't been to many in Queensland recently (apart from Conondale, Hervey Bay, Harrisville and QMP), but if tracks comply properly with the MA Track Standards they shouldn't be dangerous.  Multiple jumps (eg double jumps etc) are banned for MX tracks.  So if they are there they shouldn't be.  Complain (in writing to your SCB)calmly  approach the CofC at the meeting if you see something wrong.

We have gone through this before.  In the 80s when Supercross became very popular, clubs and promoters started putting SX stuff in MX tracks.  There was a double jump in the main straight at Tivoli in 1981 and a quad jump in another section.  Rider numbers in MX dropped drastically in the late 80s.  It wasn't until the tracks were changed that they came back.  Riders just voted with their feet.  Don't do that, very calmly give your opinion.  Anyone who doesn't want to ride MX tracks with SX stuff in them is not a whimp.  If you want to ride SX you can, but you shouldn't have to put up with it at MX.

The problem is the influence of SX and also Freestyle.  Also all tracks can't be Natural Terrain.  True Natural Terrain is a track marked out in a paddock and used once. If you use the same track again after fixing it up it really is no longer Natural Terrain.

[the stig]

       I thought the Frankston Track was closed down a couple of years Ago
       by the local Council because there were Too many Injuries on it and
       they could not get any Insurance on the Track...

       The Stig..

[TM BILL]

Re: Are modern mx tracks too dangerous?

Throttle goes both ways 

[KTM47]

Yes it is up to the rider to control how fast he or she goes, but racing of any description is about trying to win so if the other guy is prepared to stick his neck out you either have to do the same or finish second. Track standards are there to limit the risks (limit not eliminate). So if the tracks standards are being ignored something should be done about it. Don't just stop racing at these tracks, be prepared to say something. Learn from the past. Saying it on a forum may not get back to the people who can change things. I don't live in the state that appears to have a problem, if I did I would say something.

[Viper666]

For many years now I have been involved in the trials & tribulations of track inspections/licencing by MV, who are "Guided" by MA's track guidelines & the BIGGEST hinderence is the "Average speed" of the track. And I quote;

Speed
The track must not contain any high-speed sections (i.e. where speeds exceed 100kph).
Average Speed: The maximum average speed for a lap of the track is to be no greater than
55kph.
The formula to work out the average track speed is:
Average Speed (kph) = Distance (metres) x 3.6 over LapTime (secs)

And here's the biggy;
Note that the lap time used is to be one achieved by an experienced “Pro” grade rider.

If you have to design it to slow down a Pro Rider to that speed the rest of us are lucky to average about 45KPH

Hence lots of jumps (Jumpfest), tight corners (& lots of them) (Quote; Can't get out of 3rd gear), the sweeping under the carpet of the introduction of stutters, sorry whoops (Yeah right). Jumps slow most riders down because it's a simple fact you can't accellerate in mid air. If you want a long fast straight you then have to strangle the rest of the track. Italso is another reason why a lot of tracks become one line because there is no opportubity to pass.

I love jumps, or did, & they don't worry me but I agree that an average rider, like myself, can get better results if they are proficient at jumps. Case in point is Joel Milesevic Currently competing in Europe) who as a Junior was better than average in his early days but would often win because he could clear 99% of all jumps in OZ when he was on a 65cc. He has gone onto be a great rider but it was his jumping ability earlier on that helped his results.

What gets me is enduro loops can have section where they are tapped in top with trees & other life threatening obstacles wizzing past only metres away. We now have to redesign/modify our track (ONCE AGAIN) to meet the new 7 metre width rule. Easy for “Flat tracks” you can just kick the tyres out half a metre either side, a little harder for the jumps though, but very expensive for the likes of Monza, Blue Rock, etc which are carved into hillsides. At a cost of $10-$20K which will take 4-6 years to recoup & by then MA will have changed the "Guidelines" again costing us more money.

My point in all of this is don’t blame the club/committee as they are only conforming to the rules so they can be licenced. What you end up getting is an A grade Junior track.

This is why clubs are forming splinter clubs, let’s say the Ballarat MotoX club, who then hires the track, read Monza, for whatever events it wants to run and only licences the track for that event. The rest of the time it is not. Yes this means some mods before & after which we couldn’t do because of our terrain but clubs on near flat land could have 2 tracks within one and section off as required.

It is a fact of life that today’s tracks will not suit most VMX riders, so yes ride to the conditions, don’t ride and spectate, only ride natural terrain tracks. OR complain to the governing bodies who control our sport (On our behalf I might add) but not at the clubs, they are hamstrung. (Not that I’m saying youse did)

The other thing to keep in mind is we will get complaint before the day has started at a Western because a track that suit one class will never suit another. AND while I’m on regions/opens/titles, this trend of grooming tracks half way through the meet because it has cut up rough is Bullsh*t. Unless it’s dangerous then harden up or go home. I remember riding a Vic title at Monza in 79 and the track had been prepped and it was dusty & full of whoops (Bike made not manmade) & I thought it was great because we knew no better. We didn’t have the machinery or the money to groom tracks like we do today. Christ today’s bikes with their suspension, brakes etc. make our day bikes look like motorised pushbikes yet they complain as soon as one or 2 braking bumps appear.

Sorry, waffle waffle, blah blah.

Don’t know how to fix it but DON’T blame the clubs. Blame MA/MV first then the whinging minority that want tracks change to suit little Johnny or Mr. Midlife crisis with his 450 weapon (That he can’t ride)

IMO

Perko

[Rookie#1]

For many years now I have been involved in the trials & tribulations of track inspections/licencing by MV, who are "Guided" by MA's track guidelines & the BIGGEST hinderence is the "Average speed" of the track. And I quote;

Speed
The track must not contain any high-speed sections (i.e. where speeds exceed 100kph).
Average Speed: The maximum average speed for a lap of the track is to be no greater than
55kph.
The formula to work out the average track speed is:
Average Speed (kph) = Distance (metres) x 3.6 over LapTime (secs)

And here's the biggy;
Note that the lap time used is to be one achieved by an experienced “Pro” grade rider.

If you have to design it to slow down a Pro Rider to that speed the rest of us are lucky to average about 45KPH

Hence lots of jumps (Jumpfest), tight corners (& lots of them) (Quote; Can't get out of 3rd gear), the sweeping under the carpet of the introduction of stutters, sorry whoops (Yeah right). Jumps slow most riders down because it's a simple fact you can't accellerate in mid air. If you want a long fast straight you then have to strangle the rest of the track. Italso is another reason why a lot of tracks become one line because there is no opportubity to pass.

I love jumps, or did, & they don't worry me but I agree that an average rider, like myself, can get better results if they are proficient at jumps. Case in point is Joel Milesevic Currently competing in Europe) who as a Junior was better than average in his early days but would often win because he could clear 99% of all jumps in OZ when he was on a 65cc. He has gone onto be a great rider but it was his jumping ability earlier on that helped his results.

What gets me is enduro loops can have section where they are tapped in top with trees & other life threatening obstacles wizzing past only metres away. We now have to redesign/modify our track (ONCE AGAIN) to meet the new 7 metre width rule. Easy for “Flat tracks” you can just kick the tyres out half a metre either side, a little harder for the jumps though, but very expensive for the likes of Monza, Blue Rock, etc which are carved into hillsides. At a cost of $10-$20K which will take 4-6 years to recoup & by then MA will have changed the "Guidelines" again costing us more money.

My point in all of this is don’t blame the club/committee as they are only conforming to the rules so they can be licenced. What you end up getting is an A grade Junior track.

This is why clubs are forming splinter clubs, let’s say the Ballarat MotoX club, who then hires the track, read Monza, for whatever events it wants to run and only licences the track for that event. The rest of the time it is not. Yes this means some mods before & after which we couldn’t do because of our terrain but clubs on near flat land could have 2 tracks within one and section off as required.

It is a fact of life that today’s tracks will not suit most VMX riders, so yes ride to the conditions, don’t ride and spectate, only ride natural terrain tracks. OR complain to the governing bodies who control our sport (On our behalf I might add) but not at the clubs, they are hamstrung. (Not that I’m saying youse did)

The other thing to keep in mind is we will get complaint before the day has started at a Western because a track that suit one class will never suit another. AND while I’m on regions/opens/titles, this trend of grooming tracks half way through the meet because it has cut up rough is Bullsh*t. Unless it’s dangerous then harden up or go home. I remember riding a Vic title at Monza in 79 and the track had been prepped and it was dusty & full of whoops (Bike made not manmade) & I thought it was great because we knew no better. We didn’t have the machinery or the money to groom tracks like we do today. Christ today’s bikes with their suspension, brakes etc. make our day bikes look like motorised pushbikes yet they complain as soon as one or 2 braking bumps appear.

Sorry, waffle waffle, blah blah.

Don’t know how to fix it but DON’T blame the clubs. Blame MA/MV first then the whinging minority that want tracks change to suit little Johnny or Mr. Midlife crisis with his 450 weapon (That he can’t ride)

IMO

Perko

Last year I watched Henry Latham win several races at Vipers Monza round, with most riders a fair distance behind in some cases, on most laps I noticed that he chose to roll the back step up an not attempt to clear it. Then proceeded to get back on the gas with his usual gusto and continue flying around most sections, riding smooth can beat riding fast...... Bill is also correct, that right grip goes both directions...it's your choice where you position it!! 

[John Orchard]

I agree with you guys about go as fast, and jump, as you see fit.  Getting rid of doubles or triples that you'd have to jump to win, or stop someone else jumping on you as you take them one-at-a-time, is good.  I don't think any old-school rider is concerned about how rough the track gets.

I think my beef is with MA or state controlling bodies, sure they are trying to make the sport safer and also wanting to appear to be pro-active in the eyes of all.  But this crap that Monza & Tooleen are having over minimum (7 metres) width is crazy!  Shit the table-tops at Broadford are only 4 metres wide!!!!

I have been critisized about speaking-up because I was an MV Board member, so I have since quit the Board because I couldn't make change while being on the board and I was unable to speak-up.

I am angry with certain aspects of MA & MV (I only know of Victoria because I live here), they are steered by non competitors, they think they are trying to do the right thing but they have no idea!

On the weekend I went to Winton MX track (tight track, no doubles) for a practise, it is run by guys that ride and they are not restricted by MA/MV, they run under AASA controlling body, just as the Formula Extreme Roadrace Championship.  They say their costs are much lower than MA/MV and are not restricted with stupid rules.

The Winton guys said that they'd love to run some vintage events, I think we should get on-board, maybe this will make MA/MV snap in line once they start losing riders & events to AASA.  Apparently Calder Park is run under AASA, they run the Extreme Enduro out there, I will try to see if we can run an MX or two out there.

I wonder if clubs really need to be affiliated with MA/MV these days?  It doesn't worry Winton.  What if Ballarat ran AASA events at Monza Park?  They'd still have insurance (and not get ripped-off by the MA owned insurance company).

Sorry I got a little off-track with my MV bashing......

[Viper666]

Last year I watched Henry Latham win several races at Vipers Monza round, with most riders a fair distance behind in some cases, on most laps I noticed that he chose to roll the back step up an not attempt to clear it.

I gave this advice to Chris Cormack a few years back, in our 125 race, on how to attack Monza if you don't like jumps. Hit the upramp like you are going to clear then scrub off speed & accelerate. Can backfire if someone's up your clacker though. He was clearing the step up as it was one of the easiest back then. Harder now.

My advice to anyone who complained about Monza's jumps was "Show me in the rule book where it says you HAVE TO clear the jumps?" No different for me & off camber corners (Any corners matter of fact). Ban them I say, suits me.

John, would like to talk further about your AASA idea at a later date.

[Yamahaha]

Ive had a little bit to do with Australian Auto Sport Alliance and they are easy to deal with and it all seems to work fine. Be good to get them involved Johnny O

[Sorelegs11]

Are modern tracks too dangerous?

As the old saying goes "Play with the cat and put up with the sratches."

I have found out recently that even Dirt Track can be dangerous if you go too hard, but its up to you to look after yourself.

Unfortunately in the modern world there are sooks and softcocks everywhere that expect everything to be modified to suit them or their crew and if something goes wrong tis everyone elses fault. 

Faaaaark they shit me