Are modern mx tracks too dangerous?

[John Orchard]

A subject from another thread, your views?

I too feel that tracks are a little too dangerous, yet boring.  Obviously tracks being made by people that don't ride.  This is why I decided to buy my own land and make a track that everyone loves.

I thought that getting on the Board at MV would allow me to have some input into various aspects of the sport but no, so I just quit the Board and l'll see if I can do something at club level or even something outside MA control?

[IT400C]

I too feel that tracks are a little too dangerous, yet boring.

This story relates to a modern track, not a vintage track, but it highlights what can and does happen at some tracks.

The track in question was originally laid out in consultation with a retired Pre rider, and made great use of the natural terrain available to it.  It had some whoops, and it had some man made jumps and table-tops, but all done in a way that even an old Enduro rider like me could take his KTM250EXC out to play and still enjoy the day immensly.

Then the track prep got taken over by B grader (who wanted to get into A grade) and first more jumps were added..  "Not enough jumps on this bloody track!"   The B grader enjoyed his jumps.

Then all the up and down ramps were drastically steepened, and the lips sharpened to a knifes edge (including a couple that were immediately on the exit of corners so there was no run up)..  "How's anyone suposed to learn proper jumping techniques if there's no insentiive to time the table top properly!"

Then all the single jumps around the track were enlarged, and secondary jumps added in the landing zones (so that if you didn't make it, you endo'd).  "Just jump further and you'll have no problem!"

And eventually the enjoyable, mostly natural terrain track became a stop-start, point and shoot jump fest that lost about 65% of its weekend patronage, but the track prep guy and his Supercross wannabe mates enjoyed..

[Slakewell]

As most clubs are run by mini bike parents and even MA has agenda's to slow down MX tracks we end up with the tracks we have now. But as club days get 200 plus riders dont expect change. The free flowing open wide tracks are gone and unlikely to come back. MNSW has a speed limit on MX tracks FFS. If you like old school tracks were open class bikes could use top gear build your own. 
Maybe the title should be do most modern tracks suck.

[Colin Jay]

My local motorcycle club is in the early stages of developing a new MX track (hopefully the land purchase will be finalised this month) and I can see almost the same thing happening with our track. Although the club has a lot of adult riders, most of who are enduro or casual trail riders, the track will be designed for the juniors who are more MX orientated and think that jumps are the be all and end all of a MX track.

The sad part is that over the past few year while going through all the bullshit invoved in getting development approval, negotiating the land purchase etc, we have been holding ride days on various club members land and have marked out some absolutely superb matural terrain "scramble" tracks. The track at last month ride day would have had most of this forums members drooling. About 1.5km long with a wide range of on and off cambered turn  in a nice undulating paddock. The first few session cut through the grass exposing some nice moist loam. Even at the end of the day there was enough moisture in the track that no dust was being raised. I was so pissedoff that I was the only licenced official present and therefore couldn't have a ride.

Hopefully I will be able to have a bit of input, and get the track committee to make the track a bit user/vintage friendly and not be an outdoor supercross track.

CJ

[Graeme M]

Modern MX tracks are designed for the 5% of riders who want to be Chad Reed - that is, make a living racing and never work a 9-5. And the major influence on all of this is America.

Meanwhile, the other 95% vote with their feet and make Amcross, Classic Dirt, Transmoto 12 Hour and any number of organised trail rides the huge successes that they are.

Make of that what you will...

[Stevo17]

Jumps can be made fun and safe - take Toolleen for example. I only raced on it this year for the first time and the jumps were great. They gave you the opportunity to jump big if you wanted but were also contructed so they didnt hurt if you got it wrong.... I dont know if the track was especially prepared for Viper but I messed up plenty of times and had no issues. It can be done and we need to cater for the masses - not the vocal minority....

[Slakewell]

Track layout should be simple but as most tracks are shit you wonder how they get it so wrong. Here is the basics principle that most don’t understand. If you want riders to be able to pass you must have gear changes between corners and room for bikes to accelerate. They should be left right combinations as badly shown here in the diagram.  Its better if there is no large jumps between the corners. The outside line of one corner needs to lead onto a straight that is long enough for the extra speed to be carried so a pass can be completed.

[redrider1]

The Bendigo Motorcycle Club put on a natural terrain mx event at Heathcote on the weekend that had over 150 riders participating. The track was a typical (old style) natural terrain design with straights suitable for 2nd to 5th gear, slight off camber corners, wide enough for passing and laid out that everyone could safely ride it. I don`t believe any negative feedback was received regarding the track design, with most people keen for the next one. It proves that such a basic concept still appeals to a wide range of riders (A grade to juniors) and their abilities.

[John Orchard]

Maybe the title should be "Should Slakewell be allowed to attempt map drawing" lol

[firko]

Take a few laps on the Boise, Idaho track to see how brilliant a track can be with only a few well located jumps. I've been reading and hearing from my American friends about this place for years and now I know what a smooth and flowing vintage motocross track can be like if the jump guys have minimal impact on the layout. Plenty of elevation change and fast and slow corners. Our mate Siege is spotted taking photos at the end of the second vid (pre 75)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC58s8s9ClA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0FFgJlFNTQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q5Gy7FIfiM

[BAHNZY]

John,
Having been involved in motocross at both club & state level for more years than I care to remember this had been a crusade of mine at one time. On more than one occasion I was greeted with a track first up in the morning that the majority of riders either didn’t have the competency or confidence to ride properly (nee safely) coming away from the event with a very poor view of the track, and sometimes injured. Generally these competitors don’t have to think twice whether they will go back to that facility  for a second event. (which unfortunately reflects on the committee)

My argument for the most part is that tracks are generally built to suit a small percentage of the riding group, typically the A graders or kamikaze junior riders. Arguments that I have had from committees and track builders along the way are;
“Motocross is a man’s sport, it’s tough, its hard and if you’re not up to it then pack up, go home, sell your stuff and buy a fishing boat”
“If you make a track tough and challenging then riders will gain the necessary skills to ride it and the sport in general benefits”
“Jumps are easy to maintain and they slow the average speed of the rider down” (Hence why I believe that tracks have a disproportionate amount of jumps)
And that lovely disclaimer during riders briefing that goes something like;
“If you think todays track and conditions aren’t for you, your welcome to your money back and go home”
In motocross speak that means. “Put a teaspoon of cement in your coffee and harden the F@#k-up”

I’ve been to some track’s where I have questioned;
- The length of the main strait leading into a tight right hand corner (ok for some very early machines)
- Proximity of the tracks racing surface to manmade obstacles (I remember one rider almost being dissected at Barrabool on a grader blade one year)
- Where people say that an obstacle has caused a string of injuries and has a reputation for such, yet it is still in place.
- Racing at a given track when it’s well known that at that time of the year it will be dangerous (excessive dust or hard packed greasy surfaces in the wet)
- Why they have built a double jump when it could have been a table top jump.

I firmly believe that if you build a specific track to suit a specific demographic then you’ll be on a winner. The problem with such a track is that typically it will be very labour intensive to maintain and will require a big team to manage an event on race day. Dammed if you do dammed if you don’t.

Rod

[Lozza]

Modern tracks just seem to be 180 or 90 deg bends with no interesting features like fast changes of direction over a blind crest(the old Oran Pk flip flop) , or a series of corners that can be taken at increasing speeds. Most rider go around slow corners at the same pace, fast corners are what sorts out who is quick and who isn't.

[JohnnyO]

Yes modern tracks are too dangerous, most tracks nowadays are just a jump fest which greatly increases the chance of injury compared to the natural tracks we rode on in years gone by.
A track doesn't need to be full of jumps to be fun or challenging and proof of that is the popularity of Conondale, it is one of the best and most liked circuits on the modern MX Nationals tour and also in the VMX scene.
Also the natural terrain track at QMP is a big hit with the Pro riders and many practiced there the week before the Conondale round and it only has 2 or 3 small ski jumps.
There are far too many spinal and other major injuries these days and many occur on a jump gone wrong..

[Viper79]

Here's a link to a similar discussion back in 2009

http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=9078.0

[Viper65]

We are very lucky to have the MX track at the Broadford State Motorcycle Complex here in Victoria which I consider to be one of the most fun tracks which has uphill and downhill sections, and tests your riding skills (or lack of...) but can be ridden safely by the fast or slow rider (try it out this Sunday at the Mitchell Rec MCC ride day!).  All the jumps are safe in my opinion.

Are modern MX tracks dangerous?  I don't think so.  Occasionally some wanker will use a bobcat to turn one into a supercross track.  But most Victorian MX tracks have to fit the description of a MX track, not a supercross track.  These MA endorsed tracks have to be ticked off that they meet requirements, which wouldn't include tracks such Nunawading, Broadmeadows or Frankston. 

So it's up to the rider to pick and ride the tracks that are safe for the way they ride.  I know there are some I won't go near.