What is the Black Cavier equivalent vintage (old) motorcycle on Flat track

[firko]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject of US flat track, but am I correct in saying that whenever a different make of bike began dominating the Harleys , the rules were changed to either ban them (as in the case of the Roberts TZ) or move them to another class (as with the Rotax powered bikes) ? I think that the Rotax powered flattracker in this pic, shown as an example, was John Kocinski's race bike.   

Mark, the AMA have been biased towards Harley's domination dirt track since day one. When Dick Mann was beating the Harleys with his G50 Matchless back in the sixties they effectively banned the Matchless by introducing a rule that demanded the engine be production based, conveniently overlooking that the KR Harley engine shared zero parts with its production brother. It was the same when two strokes looked like they might get an edge on the Harley and the movable goal posts continue until today. All that aside however, the XR Harley  is an exceptional race bike that continues to dominate, despite the occasional applecart upset from Yamaha, Honda and in recent years Ducati.

The Wood Rotax shown is indeed John Kosinski's race ride. It's an exceptionally trick bike but still legal for the vintage class it runs in.

[jimg1au]

little john from little rock wins by a country mile evey time he races
jim

[pancho]

 Firko was it true that in early days,
and up to the 60s or thereabouts the controlling body for track racing in U.S. was a wing of the H.D. factory?

pancho.

[firko]

Firko was it true that in early days,
and up to the 60s or thereabouts the controlling body for track racing in U.S. was a wing of the H.D. factory?

I'm not totally sure of the details but I believe that Harley Davidson traditionally had somebody on the board of the AMA for decades. There's a great article about it somewhere on the 'net, if I find it I'll post it up.

Heres an article that mention the attempts to keep Harley at the top of AMA racing..........




 




Norton Manx and 88 twins at Daytona.....

Genuine plunger-framed M30 Manx models were raced at Daytona beach in the late 40's and early 50's complete with their magnesium engines, brakes and even DOHC valve gear. They were the same Manx bikes as raced in England with the exception of having to have 7.5:1 compression and kick-start mechanisms added to meet American Motorcycling Association rules. Steve Lancefield and then Francis Beart both went to Daytona with Manx bikes, piloted by various American riders the most famous probably being Dick Klamfoth who won the Daytona 200 more than once on a Manx in this era.

The American motorcycle manufacturers and the Triumph motorcycle company were of course not happy about Norton's Daytona performances. Harley Davidson and Indian along with BSA Chief Walt Brown and Rod Coates, the top Triumph man in the eastern United States was in charge of their racing program and also was a member of the AMA rules committee tirelessly lobbied for rule changes that would favor their marques.

This lobbying and politics kept the featherbed manx and other British OHC racing bikes out of AMA competition thru the early sixties, by which time they were just about obsolete anyway.

Because the Norton featherbed 88 was a production bike, the AMA could not keep it out of competition, and the works racing department began making special "Daytona 88" racers to compete at the Daytona 200 starting in 1953 when two were sent over and they finished with very high placings.

Throughout the fifties these Daytona twins evolved into what was basically a Manx Chassis with a model 88 engine in it. The engines had some tuning which resulted in the "Daytona" camshaft profile, which was incorporated into the production twins in the late fifties. Also the bikes were fitted with a bit higher compression and twin Amal GP carbs. If you run the serial numbers of one of these bikes through the factory records kept in England by the NOC, it will come back as a Norton 88 with the "Daytona 88" option.

The latest wideline Daytona 88 bike I have heard of and know of, is a 1959 model. When the slimline featherbed was introduced for 1960 AMA rules would insist that it would be used in competition.
 
Doug Hele and the racing department were heavily into developing the Dominator twins in the late 1950's to increase the performance of the road bikes vs. BSA and Triumph offereings, and for use in racing, first in production racing, then looking at it as a good replacement for the heavier, complicated and expensive to produce Manx. Works prepared model 88s began winning production races in 1960 and in 1961 everyone knows that the Domiracer appeared at the Isle of Man and did very well.

Heads with polished ports and big valves, along with twin-carbs and other production racing parts were available from Nortons for the Dominator twins from 1958 onwards. From 1961 onwards performance "SportsSpecials" were sold as complete bikes on the showroom floor which had performance parts as standard equipment.
 
The last three Daytona 88 racers were prepared over the winter of 61-62 for the daytona 200 that spring. Since the actual Domiracer would be illegal by AMA rules, these three bikes were built with production slimline frames and engine castings. To these were added Domiracer large-rod-journal cranks and rods, bucket tappets, needle-roller cams, a racing magneto and handed Amal GP carbs. Specail alloy tanks, Manx brakes and swingarm were used on the chassis. After 1962 Bracebridge street was closed and the racing shop was sold off to outside vendors, Nortons works racing days were gone forever.
 
The Berliner corporation who was the distributor for Norton in the USA from the late 1950's onwards had other ideas though. They wanted more Norton racing bikes for the 1964 Daytona race. Since the Norton racing shop was gone, AMC contracted with Paul Dunstall to produce them. Dunstall took four 88ss bikes and built them to racing specs. The engines were standard apart from having milled cylinders to increase compression, along with the addition of racing magnetos, handed Amal GPs and Dunstall exhausts with reverse=cone meggas and a crossover in front of the cylinders between the down pipes. Manx forks and wheels and fenders and special alloy tanks were added. These 1964 88ss bikes dynoed a bit over 50bhp.

Some racing twins were supplied for use other places besides Daytona. A few Daytona 88s were supplied to the Canadian Norton distributor a few times in the 1950s and a few were used in the early fifties to marshal at the Isle of Man races.

For both the Daytona Manx and twin racers, a special set of close-ration gears was used. In England these were known as "Scarborough" gears, and in the USA they were known as the Daytona gear set. Because the AMA required the use of a kick-start mechanism, first gear in the Norton box could by no higher than 2.3:1. So this first gear was used along with close-ratio racing 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears. The big jump between first and second was a disadvantage, but it was better than the standard and even lower street first gear ratio.

After the Norton Manx and Matchless G50 were both out of production and the might of Japanese motorcycle manufacturers was brought to bear on the USA and the AMA, the AMA started to let OHC engines and racing frame options into it's racing program.....And then it was left to Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki to battle in the board-room with Harley Davidson and each other over racing rules

[pancho]

 I had a set of Daytona gears in my B33, apparently made for Goldies at daytona. but finished thier life in the '68 Nepean 6HR  behind the T100 motor.
cheers

[Purple Dave]

I'm a TRUE BLUE Short Circuit rider......and back in the Dim Dark early 70's, the Amaroo Park commentator , Arthur Rumsey, had a dream of running US style Flat Trackers at The Speedway Beside the Freeway, when it was FLAT.......I told him at the time.....I'm In, probably would have ridden a Triumph.....but as we know......it never happened !!...I hope it happens in my Lifetime.....Lots of talk.....let's get some ACTION !!

[Curly3]

Alvin the Turncoat, I'm shattered.
Nah, if it means more bikes on track I don't give a shite, as long as the Goldie keeps kicking arse.
Turncoat, isn't that a Yanky Doodle Dandy quote?

[Purple Dave]

Alvin the Turncoat, I'm shattered.
Nah, if it means more bikes on track I don't give a shite, as long as the Goldie keeps kicking arse.
Turncoat, isn't that a Yanky Doodle Dandy quote?

Steve.....not a Turncoat.......I just never got the HANG of a SLIDER....I love SIDEWAYS, but I just did it better on a CONVENTIONAL frame....Hence......Big Twin Flat Tracker !!
If it EVER gets off the ground, maybe a Yammy 650 would look good next to the SC 500...

[firko]

I'm a TRUE BLUE Short Circuit rider......and back in the Dim Dark early 70's, the Amaroo Park commentator , Arthur Rumsey, had a dream of running US style Flat Trackers at The Speedway Beside the Freeway, when it was FLAT.......I told him at the time.....I'm In, probably would have ridden a Triumph.....but as we know......it never happened !!...I hope it happens in my Lifetime.....Lots of talk.....let's get some ACTION !! 

The Aussie flat track scene was going from strength to strength in the mid 90's to early 00's with a well supported class running on the then popular Long Track speedway scene running on country trotting tracks. I saw fields of 20 or so bikes ranging from Harley XR750's to framer 750 Triumphs,BSA's and Yamaha's. The class was actually growing while the long track speedway class was fading but with the demise of both Ivan Mauger and Kevin McDonalds long track promotions the class faded away. With the large number of bikes being built and imported adding to those that already exist it's only a matter of time before the big bikes are entertaining the race punters again. Add to that the inclusion of short tracker bikes* in with the speedway program on Nepeans speedway track and the future's looking pretty bright for flat track style racing.

*Short trackers are essentially 250-500cc versions of the big flat track framed 750's set up for quarter mile tracks. Vintage versions can also of course run on the short circuit/dirt tracks in their respective capacity classes so there's plenty of rides coming up.

[Purple Dave]

Thanks Mark......I've been out of the GAME too long !!.....I'm 100% behind this side of the sport.....

[jimg1au]

alnin
your dream may come true later this year as i am importing a very fast 650/750 tr6r gen mile flattracker from the usa you can give it a punt around nepean. i also have 3 of the short track bikes as well but will be selling 2 of them as projects a 250 and a 500.will bring my fast cr250 champion to nepean next round
jim

[SON]

Short Circuit, Dirt Track, Long Track, Flat Track,
Feet Up and Full Lock,
Not many things more entertaining than them,
And it's on it's way back.
Troy Bayliss's efforts brought it back out in the open.

[oldyzman]

Jim, When is next round? I will see you there hopefully on my A4....
Brett

[firko]

your dream may come true later this year as i am importing a very fast 650/750 tr6r gen mile flattracker from the usa

Jims Yetman 750 Triumph, my Shell OW72 750 Yamaha and SONS Starracer T500 Suzuki are all soon to depart sunny Las Vegas for sunny Sydney for their new life downunder. Another forum regular has purchased a Trackmaster BSA B50 that will receive his CCM engine....and no, it's not Jonesy although Alan did purchase a C&J Triumph frame out of Arizona but it's destined to become a street desert sled.
  Below, Jims very rare, championship winning Yetman framed 750 Triumph. While it might not be the prettiest girl in the class, it's got an amazing history and race pedigree and is believed to be one of the fastest Triumphs in AHRMA racing.
                                                            

[Purple Dave]

alnin
your dream may come true later this year as i am importing a very fast 650/750 tr6r gen mile flattracker from the usa you can give it a punt around nepean. i also have 3 of the short track bikes as well but will be selling 2 of them as projects a 250 and a 500.will bring my fast cr250 champion to nepean next round
jim

Great stuff Jim.........I should have my SC 500 completed by mid May and my plan is to give it its first Race run in June at Nepean..see you then.....