Should there be a 4 stroke class pre 85/evo at the Nats

[Curly3]

All good oldfart, I'm just thinking outside the square but I have no doubt there are others with heaps more up to date experience than me.

[NSR]

How about a 175 class. 
A bit more grunt than 125s and just as fun.  A lot around not being raced.  No EVO or Pre85 Have them all in,  PE may handle but the IT has a better motor and the SWM has it all
 
         

[GMC]

How about a 175 class. 
A bit more grunt than 125s and just as fun.  A lot around not being raced.  No EVO or Pre85 Have them all in,  PE may handle but the IT has a better motor and the SWM has it all
 
         

Now your talking

[tony27]

They run something similar to that over here called evo-lites, I think it's for 200 diesels & 175/185 2strokes with mx bikes not allowed. Seems to be dominated in numbers by xr200s. Bill would be able to confirm actual rules

[suzuki59]

They run something similar to that over here called evo-lites, I think it's for 200 diesels & 175/185 2strokes with mx bikes not allowed. Seems to be dominated in numbers by xr200s. Bill would be able to confirm actual rules

Evolites in NZ is for 250 four strokes and 175 two strokes.As Tony said its dominated by 1984/5 XR 250"s.

[albrid-3]

Why don`t you run a bucket class, up to 185 4 stroke, up to 125 2 stroke, no big bore 200cc and over, no big bore 175 etc, all standard trail machines , no MX bikes. plan and simple

[STW996]

They run something similar to that over here called evo-lites, I think it's for 200 diesels & 175/185 2strokes with mx bikes not allowed. Seems to be dominated in numbers by xr200s. Bill would be able to confirm actual rules

Evolites in NZ is for 250 four strokes and 175 two strokes.As Tony said its dominated by 1984/5 XR 250"s.

Dominated by XR 250's must be a top class then as they are a gun bike (Honda #1)

[suzuki59]

They run something similar to that over here called evo-lites, I think it's for 200 diesels & 175/185 2strokes with mx bikes not allowed. Seems to be dominated in numbers by xr200s. Bill would be able to confirm actual rules

Evolites in NZ is for 250 four strokes and 175 two strokes.As Tony said its dominated by 1984/5 XR 250"s.

Dominated by XR 250's must be a top class then as they are a gun bike (Honda #1)

Shano they are cool to watch.Given I used to own a 1985 XR200RF with Scunge back in the day,I better not bad mouth them

[firko]

We're wandering here folks .........to answer the original question, I'd reckon there's no room or need for a four stroke class class right now. Getting the existing classes running to their full potential is a bigger priority in my eyes.

 Back in 1988 when the initial VMX classings and rules were being formulated the four stroke was considered a burned out dinosaur so it seemed a good idea to introduce a class that would bring those old strokers out of the sheds and onto the track again. We regularly acheived full grids and often ran two capacities, especially at the Nats. The 'novelty' tag doesn't fit the modern four stroke and even 1980's 4t enduro bikes were as common as their enduro two stroke brothers so it's more fitting that 2T and 4T bikes run together in Evo and pre 90.

[oldfart]

Mark , with referance to back in 1988 when the rules were formulated was there any consideration for expansion. Because what you will find is that as the years pass by the eras must adjust or the sport will die of slow death.
You spoke of full grids and ran two capacities at the Nats ..... are those bikes still turning up today or has there been a change in the guard
24 years on.... It may be time for a change and a look at the bigger picture.
Beacause my Gut feeling is that pre 70 and maybe pre 74 in 10 -15 years time will not have the numbers we have today.
In short most of us are living our dreams ..... or re -inacting them 

[supersenior 50]

My personal opinion is no need for a dedicated 4st class in either Classic or Post Classic National titles ( clubs should decide these issues based on their own demographics) My favourite bike is a 4st so no bias here.
2012 Classic C'ship had a record entry. Hold the Post Classic 2013 title in NSW or Southern Qld, run age groups per MOMS, a dedicated ladies class, longer races (particularly for the younger age catagories and Open classes ),on Evo and upward compatible tracks, invite some "legends" and they'll come in droves.
         Combine the lessons and examples of the 2012 Classic Nats and the Conondale Classic and it'll be huge.

[suzuki59]

I don't live in Australia anymore so my opinions rightfully have no currency,but for what it's worth the Kiwi class works well.....

[firko]

Mark , with referance to back in 1988 when the rules were formulated was there any consideration for expansion. Because what you will find is that as the years pass by the eras must adjust or the sport will die of slow death
You spoke of full grids and ran two capacities at the Nats ..... are those bikes still turning up today  or has there been a change in the guard
24 years on.... It may be time for a change and a look at the bigger picture.

I'm not sure of your points Stewie, I'd have thought the sport has been expanding as the years move along. You ask if those 90's era pre 75 4 strokes still turning up and of course the answer is no...most of those riders have moved on to other pursuits and the next generation of vintage racers haven't taken to the four stroke class with the gusto the first gen vintage racers did. That's the point I was making, that the class is dead in the water because there's no longer any real reason for it.

Beacause my Gut feeling is that pre 70 and maybe pre 74 in 10 -15 years time will not have the numbers we have today 

Of course the interest in the pre 75 and older classes will have wained in 10-15 years time. Those classes are only half as strong as they were a decade ago but ironically they're still the strongest division with regard to the Nats. I suspect that interest will have faded for the Evo and pre 90 division in 10-15 years time too, replaced by the pre 2000 class. That's the way things roll.

While we have to think of the future, our main priority is to support and encourage what we've got now. The sport will be in good condition when all eras from pre 75 to pre 90 are fielding full grids in all capacities. Calling for a four stroke class when clubs can't raise enough Evo or Pre 85/90 125's to constitute a class at most events is a bit silly. I'd have thought that pushing for more 125's would be more important than adding new classes. While I was one of the original instigators of the pre 75 4 stroke class, I don't think it's relevent to today's VMX. Despite what the anti 4 stroke pundits might say, a well set up Evo or pre 90 four stroke bike can be competitive against two strokes as Dave Middleton and his C&J Honda and others have shown in recent times.

[JohnnyO]

My personal opinion is no need for a dedicated 4st class in either Classic or Post Classic National titles ( clubs should decide these issues based on their own demographics) My favourite bike is a 4st so no bias here.
2012 Classic C'ship had a record entry. Hold the Post Classic 2013 title in NSW or Southern Qld, run age groups per MOMS, a dedicated ladies class, longer races (particularly for the younger age catagories and Open classes ),on Evo and upward compatible tracks, invite some "legends" and they'll come in droves.
         Combine the lessons and examples of the 2012 Classic Nats and the Conondale Classic and it'll be huge.

Well said Col.. and that's spoken through the experience of running events.

[oldfart]

Point taken  Col  .... But at some time we must embrace a mix of 4 stroke andPre 85 as this will be the next generation of rider. As the  pre 68 AP dwindle
( the other end of the scale )