Should there be a 4 stroke class pre 85/evo at the Nats

[JohnnyO]

Do we need another class for the Nats!? Three different eras with three capacities in each (125, 250 & open) plus age group races plus time out for crashes and such doesn't leave a lot of time for much else. Cram more stuff in there and we're back to 3 X 3 lap races to decide an AUSTRALIAN TITLE!
We may as well include all the pre 78 and earlier if that's the case......

You've got a point, there are already too many classes at the Nats.

[Slakewell]

Do we need another class for the Nats!? Three different eras with three capacities in each (125, 250 & open) plus age group races plus time out for crashes and such doesn't leave a lot of time for much else. Cram more stuff in there and we're back to 3 X 3 lap races to decide an AUSTRALIAN TITLE!
We may as well include all the pre 78 and earlier if that's the case......

Given that the post Post 78 nats didnt get enough entries to run this year maybe it needs as many riders as it can get. I would think it could run all together evo/pre 85 and would only add one more event to the program plus the same bike could be ridden in the normal classes as well giving good value. I see no reason to add age classes.

[Montynut]

I don't think the lack of a 4 stroke class had any bearing on that. Total entries were well below a viable number is my understanding

[firko]

I'm not so sure there's room for a four stroke class at Nats level but it might be worth a shot at club level. If it is considered viable at Nats level however, it's only another three races on the program. A well thought out four stroke race bike should be reasonably competitive against the two strokes....stuff like 510 Huskies, C&J and DMR Hondas, Can-Am Sonics, KTM 640 and engine swap bikes like the YZ/XR that Head built should all be up towards the pointy end. If you can knock out some of the weight and improve the suspension even the humble 80's enduro fodder can be competitive.

[matcho mick]

Firko,club levels covered in NSW,heaven runs all in 4 stroke class (usually  ),might be combined with chicks races,(only time i really concentrate on following someone ),

[maico police]

The post 78 died because it was in Tassie this year. Everybody knows it. My dog is aware of it. Have it on the mainland next year and they'll come in droves.
Why does a 250 four stroke have to run with 125's? Can't remember them doing that in the eighties? Not in motocross any how.

[VMX247]

Yep, build it up at club level,then hit the Post 78 Nationals with a class.
From little things, big things grow. 

http://ozvmx.com/community/index.php?topic=17395.0

[Montynut]

Firko,club levels covered in NSW,heaven runs all in 4 stroke class (usually  ),might be combined with chicks races,(only time i really concentrate on following someone ),

Mick you must be Umm dreaming Ladies race not combined with 4st .

We run the Open & 250 4st as a combined class. A little strange this year as 250 4st has been bigger than Open 4st several times. There are two ladies that ride their 200 4st in that class naturally. Probably not best to mention your reason for the intense concentration

[Curly3]

They weren't mixed on DT either but there'd be a heap more dragged out of the shed if they were.
Just a thought.

[Kenneth S (222)]

The post 78 died because it was in Tassie this year. Everybody knows it. My dog is aware of it. Have it on the mainland next year and they'll come in droves.
Why does a 250 four stroke have to run with 125's? Can't remember them doing that in the eighties? Not in motocross any how.

Agreed. The cold hard reality was that Tassy was too expensive and required too much time off to do. When the event is within reach to the majority, the Post Classic end of the spectrum has the strongest roll up, in NSW anyway. From what I saw, the strongest classes in MrVMX this year and last year for that matter were EVO, the Pre 85 and Pre 90.

I don't remember them doing that in the 80s either. Between 78 to 83 I raced every open race I could race in NSW plus key events in QLD and VIC. I honestly can't remember racing against a 4 stroke.......not once! If someone wanted to enter a 4 stroke and they had a 250, they had to race in the 250 class. I must be missing something here, I can't really understand why this is an issue. I would have thought waking up to the growing popularity of Pre 90 embracing those riders and catering for the future of the sport would be a much more important direction to consider, but I'm getting off topic.

[Graham]

Doesnt work in QLD, only a few pig rooters turn up....they should run in the appropriate class....most of them are hand grenades anyway and they make too much noise.

HAHAHA its Davey Crockofshit AGAIN

[mike1948]

I dunno, back in the day, it was all in, no special class for 4strokes.  If they couldn't keep up, so be it!
I've never been a fan of classes manufactured purely to give one type of bike a better chance.  The capacity classes have been used since year dot, and still work ok.
A well set up and ridden 4stroke will go fast enough to win against open fields, with the suspension technology and engine mods available - and legally.  See the current standard of racing in the UK - 75% four strokes!
I believe we don't need any extra classes, in fact I'd suggest we drop the 4stroke classes completely and make year/capacity the only criteria.
Mike  

[Davey Crocket]

Gee Graham, which part did I get wrong?...YOUR TT250 IS A HAND GRENADE , there are only a couple of PIG ROOTERS that come to QVMX and BMCC or are we going to diferent meetings?....how often do we see one of those hideous TT500/Aberg replicas?....you would think there where 100's of them out there with the amount of YZ125C/X's that have been molested for parts to build one (maybe the owners are too scared to show up in case a YZ125C smokes them), I could name most of the 4 strokes up here and most of them dont see a full season without throwing there guts all over the track...maybe we need to put a carbon tax on them....dirty niosy heavy peices of farm machinery.

[Nathan S]

most of them are hand grenades anyway and they make too much noise

The ones that are unreliable and too noisy are usually owned by the flat black helmet/flannelette shirt brigade who dig out some old dunger from Uncle Jim Bobs shed and expect it to be a race bike. These blokes and their dungers usually stay in the sport for as long as it takes for the bike to shit itself. A well built and properly muffled stroker should be quieter and just as reliable as any two stroke.

 I'd like to more of them competing if just to add some more variety to the sport.

Interesting thoughts.

Some random ones of my own:
A 1980s XL/XT/KLR/DR-S is further behind a 1980s CR/YZ/KX/RM than the same comparison between 1970s models. In the first half of 1970s, the trailbikes had the same suspension travel and fork diameter as the MXers, for a start.

No excuse for XR/TT600/KLXes, though... Pre-85 excludes the TT250/350, XR600s and the decent XR250/350s, I guess - and while they're all decent bikes for their age, they all show their age against the late 80s MXers (damper-rod forks, rear drums, older egros, etc).

Heaven has always had a respectable roll-up of post-74 4-strokes over the years I've been involved: Paul's many and varied TT powered beasts, a couple of CR/XR hybrids, Dennis' KTM, some KLXes, an occasional 510, and the inevitable HL replica or two.

Allowing 250Fs in with 125Ts would be a travesty, IMO.

[maico police]

Gee Graham, which part did I get wrong?...YOUR TT250 IS A HAND GRENADE , there are only a couple of PIG ROOTERS that come to QVMX and BMCC or are we going to diferent meetings?....how often do we see one of those hideous TT500/Aberg replicas?....you would think there where 100's of them out there with the amount of YZ125C/X's that have been molested for parts to build one (maybe the owners are too scared to show up in case a YZ125C smokes them), I could name most of the 4 strokes up here and most of them dont see a full season without throwing there guts all over the track...maybe we need to put a carbon tax on them....dirty niosy heavy peices of farm machinery.