RM125B incl spares.

[Ted]

Yes, this parts book is printed in Dec 1977 . It is also the fourth edition of this book

Even if this part was available in Dec '77 it still makes it a '77 model

Buy a new car on the 31st of Dec 2012 and tell me what year model it is.

[firko]

There are lots of grey areas in vmx, but in general it works and works well. In most cases its the humans with their own agendas that try and stuff it up.

Well stated Brad. I know little and care even less over the RM-B swing arm situation but know that there must be a good argument from either side for there to be a situation in the first place.

In my 25 years in VMX many grey area rules have come up but in most cases it's been proven that there's a genuine reason for the rule being in place. While I have issues with a number rulings ( B40 BSA pre 65 eligibility problems for one, Novation swingarms for two ) I think our rulebook has done a pretty good job over the last twenty + years. Most of the scrutineering dramas I've seen in that time have evolved from racers either trying to pull a swifty, interpreting the rulebook to suit their own agenda or, in most cases common ignorance of what's eligible on their bike. Even though you might disagree with what's written on the page with regards your bike, you can't go against the written word just because you think it's wrong. If you want the rulebook changed, get all of your proof of eligibility together and submit your proposal for change through the proper channels. Whingeing and whining on the forums or amongst your mates isn't going to change diddly shit. If you've got a particular grey area that may cause some doubt from the scrutineer, take your written, dated proof of that part/modification/model/whatever is in your opinion eligible and present it to the scrutineer during inspection.

Build your bike to the book like 99% of us do and there'll be no dramas however.

[SON]

Well said.
Put the C model arm in it to look at it,
put the B model arm in it to race it,
Don't even need a rule book for that one,

[TM BILL]

Well said.
Put the C model arm in it to look at it,
put the B model arm in it to race it,
Don't even need a rule book for that one,

Fair enough

As far as im aware the only difference betwen the optional B arm and the C model arm is the addition of the brake stay bracket and that the optional arm was painted black.

Paint asisde what is to stop somone fabricating a brake stay bracket and welding it on ( if somone can still weld that bad to copy the original )

Whos to say witch is witch 

Or to play devils advocate whats to stop somone removing the bracket off the optional B arm and fabricating their own floating rear brake system for their B but NOT using C model brake components 

[huskibul]

    I have the 3rd edition of the book printed and published in november 76' and it has the optional 125-B arm ! as long as it's not full floating it should be ok

[huskibul]

   Your probably right there too bill ! pretty sure floating brakes were around before 78' 

[09.0]

Yes, this parts book is printed in Dec 1977 . It is also the fourth edition of this book

Even if this part was available in Dec '77 it still makes it a '77 model

Buy a new car on the 31st of Dec 2012 and tell me what year model it is.

Using bikes rather than cars as an example and my train of thought, for example my cr500 has a build date of November 1984. Is it pre 85 legal? No as its a designated 85 model.
Why hasn't anyone come up with the first version of the parts list? Is there not one or is it because it isn't listed in it?

[Doc]

the optional swingarm

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=86267C09A3452A71!5897&authkey=!AMouQhSD7jmCtcM

differences: brake stay lug, pivot used bushes not needle roller bearing, black paint

[John Orchard]

Well I guess we are all putting our opinion in for the 3rd or 4th time so here we go again :-)

1) The swingarm is listed in a 1977 parts list.

2) The part is listed for a 1977 B model.

3) Other brands of alloy swingarms are allowed for Pre 78.

4) There is a difference between C swingarms and B.

5) Someone needs to come up with a pic, from 1977, of a bike with the swingarm being used - Game over.

[JohnnyO]

5) Someone needs to come up with a pic, from 1977, of a bike with the swingarm being used - Game over.

How will you know the pick is from '77 and not '78 or any other year?
If only it was that easy..

[Ted]

There are lots of grey areas in vmx, but in general it works and works well. In most cases its the humans with their own agendas that try and stuff it up.

Well stated Brad. I know little and care even less over the RM-B swing arm situation but know that there must be a good argument from either side for there to be a situation in the first place.

In my 25 years in VMX many grey area rules have come up but in most cases it's been proven that there's a genuine reason for the rule being in place. While I have issues with a number rulings ( B40 BSA pre 65 eligibility problems for one, Novation swingarms for two ) I think our rulebook has done a pretty good job over the last twenty + years. Most of the scrutineering dramas I've seen in that time have evolved from racers either trying to pull a swifty, interpreting the rulebook to suit their own agenda or, in most cases common ignorance of what's eligible on their bike. Even though you might disagree with what's written on the page with regards your bike, you can't go against the written word just because you think it's wrong. If you want the rulebook changed, get all of your proof of eligibility together and submit your proposal for change through the proper channels. Whingeing and whining on the forums or amongst your mates isn't going to change diddly shit. If you've got a particular grey area that may cause some doubt from the scrutineer, take your written, dated proof of that part/modification/model/whatever is in your opinion eligible and present it to the scrutineer during inspection.

Build your bike to the book like 99% of us do and there'll be no dramas however.

Mark. Read my posts. I have every intention of getting it resolved with the powers that be.

Do you think they will open on Xmas day for me.

[huskibul]

   The part was available in november 76' according to my genuine suzuki parts book ,which youd have to think was around the release date of the 125- B and you would think the 1st & 2nd edition would be 125-A/S/M models 

[John Orchard]

When I say "a pic from 77" I mean I have seen a pic in a '77 Revs or AMCN of Anthony Gunter with the alloy arm.  I guess if you can see the printed date of the paper in the pic - game over.

[JohnnyO]

When I say "a pic from 77" I mean I have seen a pic in a '77 Revs or AMCN of Anthony Gunter with the alloy arm.  I guess if you can see the printed date of the paper in the pic - game over.

That would be perfect if there are any around.

[Montynut]

Yes, this parts book is printed in Dec 1977 . It is also the fourth edition of this book

Even if this part was available in Dec '77 it still makes it a '77 model

Buy a new car on the 31st of Dec 2012 and tell me what year model it is.

Actually Ted if you use the above augument then it is doomed. almost every year the following year model comes out in the last quarter eg many MY2013 model cars are out now.

The RM125C was available around October 1977 and is not Pre78.

The YZ125E? I can remember my mate buying one in September or October 1977 but again not Pre78 legal. The shop had 125Ds and 125Es both sitting on the floor side by side.

The basis of your augument must be that the part was freely available during the models life not just printed in a book published in Dec 1977 after the RM125C was freely available. The few RM125Bs with those alloy bars that I saw back in the day were all ridden by fully supported riders so where they only issued to sellected riders? Buggered if I know.