Nationals Race Sec up date 2012

[211kawasaki]

section 18 of the GCRs is what matters to the meeting, modern MX rules or rules in section 12 do not overide 18. In otherwords there is no rule in the CMX pages that make it a requirement to fit a chain guard.
211
PS entries exceed 100, pre 75 open is really solid, pre 78 is really good with 25 in each or there abouts

[211kawasaki]

Haven't entered the outfit yet as I'm waiting for MA scrutineer to contact me with what's in and what's out. However they don't seem interested.

Whats the issue EML???

[Freakshow]

section 18 of the GCRs is what matters to the meeting, modern MX rules or rules in section 12 do not overide 18. In otherwords there is no rule in the CMX pages that make it a requirement to fit a chain guard.
211

So just confirming we dont need chain guards or any deflectors between the rear sprocket.   Understand the front has the cover requirement however. if thats the case on the rear thats all good !

i just had been told it was all disciplines....  which gets ugly at some meetings.  i just want to know that i can comply for this one.  cheers Dave for that confirmation. see you on the start line.  riding i hope 

[Freakshow]

Sorry, yes camp fee is $25.00 You can camp in the pit area as each entrant is allocated a 9m by 6m space. If you cant fit in that ,there is a spill over area outside the pits

9m x6 sweet ..... reckon i can hire out the space left.....  to Brad 

[Montynut]

section 18 of the GCRs is what matters to the meeting, modern MX rules or rules in section 12 do not overide 18. In otherwords there is no rule in the CMX pages that make it a requirement to fit a chain guard.
211

This is an interesting post as I have been trying to get clarification on this exact matter. I contacted MA and was told that the general rules in section 12 (all disciplines) are the primary section and are only overridden if an item is mentioned in the individual disciplines. This is the exact opposite to what you have stated.

When you read the rule book it also seems to indicate that the general rules section 12 applies unless exempted or altered in the individual discipline section. I do not doubt that you are correct but it seems to be confused even at MA.

We need this clarified as I was specifically told only four or five days ago by an official (a senor position) at MA that VMX and classic DT bikes require a rear sprocket guard on the lower chain run as the Classic Dirt discipline section does not exempt them. He also indicated that they don't need to be extensive just sufficient to stop fingers etc from being drawn into the sprocket.

As I said I am not implying you are incorrect I just want a clear and final ruling on this as it caused issues at our last meeting.

[Graeme M]

I cannot agree with Dave's statement above. 12.1.0.1 clearly states that chapter 12 applies to ALL disciplines. 12.1.0.2 then notes that discipline specific rules over ride chapter 12 unless otherwise stated.

12.8.8.6 then clearly states that a cover is required to prevent entrapment between the lower chain run and the rear sprocket.

Chapter 18 then makes no specification in this regard other than to note (unnecessarily) that a countershaft sprocket cover is required.

So, a rear cover IS required as it is contained in the umbrella chapter 12 and CMX specific Chapter 18 does not make any additional specification.

There can be no other interpretation in my view. If there is, then it means one cannot make a reasonable interpretation of any part of the MoMS, because chapter 12 is VERY clear.

You will note that chapter 17 covering modern MX also makes no specification regarding chain covers, so requiring covers in that discipline must be consequent to chapter 12.

If I am incorrect, please explain how as I can't see any other interpretation and it would be good to have this clarified early.

[09.0]

Re jumps--Guy has no imput into whether there are jumps or not.Track not finished so wait and see.

cool. I awaite with great anticipation.

You can camp in the pit area as each entrant is allocated a 9m by 6m space. If you cant fit in that ,there is a spill over area outside the pits

crap I'm not going to fit in that! I'd be flat out getting my bikes in there....

[supersenior 50]

Brad, I can fit my Navara ute (one of the longest twin cabs), four bike trailer, 3 by 3 shade, and three or four bikes in that 9 by 6 space.

[vandy010]

on the 9m x 6m site size.
you can always fill that area with quickshades & bikes and park the car/ute/trailer just outside in the spill over area.
same as what has happened at other events.
no biggy

[211kawasaki]

Read 12.1.0.2 that says, "unless otherwise stated the requirements of a dicipline - specific chapter override the requirements of this chapter" and that will be CHAPTER 18!!!!!!!

I have spent 13 years now as Chair of the CMX Commission and have not only written the rule book for those years but attend 21 national championships as Chief Scruitineer; can we all just forget about this chain guard issue as I can assure you it is NOT relavent to Classic Motocross.



211

[211kawasaki]

adding to that

that we dont mention the chain guard protecting the sproket dosnt mean that because we dont mention it is therefore a requirement; if that was the case the book would be 6 inches thick. Out of all the dicipline specific chapters our section 18 is the clearest and most specific; your requirements for your machine are clearly stated. Lets look to pre 75, read that section and you are in no doubt of what the MACHINE requirements will be.

211

[EML]

211 My Wasp has a very small disc on the rear and I'm loath to fit a road based rear drum assy with (most likely steel rim and skinny spokes) Just not safe.
The original is fitted with a tiny Lockheed disc that I'm sure would have been used pre75 in Europe. Wasp tells us it was an option at the time and I am looking for a photo of Grogg or van Hueten using one to proove it.
It wont matter stuff all as we will only be padding the field-we are at best, "also rans!!"

[JohnnyO]

Brad, I can fit my Navara ute (one of the longest twin cabs), four bike trailer, 3 by 3 shade, and three or four bikes in that 9 by 6 space.

Col that's only half the stuff he takes

[Graeme M]

I'm sorry but that is not a correct interpretation. Chapter 12 is very clear that it applies to ALL DISCIPLINES. 12.1.0.2 simply provides the additional direction that discipline specific chapters can MODIFY chapter 12 but only by distinctly STATING SO (ie "the requirements of a dicipline - specific chapter override the requirements of this chapter").

If you wanted Chapter 18 to NOT require a rear sprocket cover than you needed to spell that out in Chapter 18. If a requirement is not made in a discipline specific chapter than the requirement of chapter 12 holds.

If your interpretation is correct, than NO-ONE needs to follow any rule in Chapter 12 that is not specified in the discipline specific chapter, which is clearly nonsense.

I am not trying to have a go here, but you can't have a rulebook that people are free to interpret in any old way they wish. I know what you think is being said, but it simply is not.

[211kawasaki]

Graham,
I appreciate your view on the matter and you are free to discuss further with MA if you feel you need further clarification on the subject.
I however respectfully suggest you look to 12.1.0.2 again and read it again.
In summary; class specific rules take precident over general rules; there is no component of the rule book that states that if the class specific rules do not address a specific issue then chapter X or Y applies. Section 18 as applies to CMX is quite specific, targeted and clear as to what the machine requirements are for national competition and as such the scruitineers at the meeting will be looking to section 18 of the rule book on matters of eligibility.
Regards
Dave Tanner