Simons for pre 78?

[TM BILL]

Then all you need to do is measure by the AHRMA method. That method is simple enough to do.

But is it the accepted MA way 

[09.0]

Then all you need to do is measure by the AHRMA method. That method is simple enough to do.

But is it the accepted MA way 

yes. Dave Tanner told me the same.

[Simo63]

Then all you need to do is measure by the AHRMA method. That method is simple enough to do.

But is it the accepted MA way 

yes. Dave Tanner told me the same.

Thanks Brad, finally something to work with. I have gathered from reading the other posts on this topic that Dave Tanner is someone that is in authority on this so will now make the necessary changes to my YZ250D to make sure that I can't be "pinged" in scrutineering by any chest beating, power tripping scrutineer.  And I say that with all due respect to the many perfectly fine scrutineers that I have had the pleasure of dealing with over the years.

[Freakshow]

Wow i saw this post on page one and now passing through again its on like 15....

Any event i scrutineer at i use one rule if it looks right it is, if i think it dont look right then it probally isnt.  So i will grab the front or the rear and pull the crap out of it till it get full " useable" travel if its less than 9 or 4 or what ever the class it is in - then its ok, you shouldnt have to diassemble a bike to find out travel numbers.  Unless your in the TOP 5.

Travel should relate to what you can Actually use out on the track. not what when diassembled is theoretical.  And i would suggest 99% of scrutineers would do the same thing to apply this RULE.     If there is a method in the 2012 rule book that specifies the way it is measured then use it,  if not then refer above.

And yes im a level 4 and if i am asked to assist at the 75 nationals with safety checks or whatever that is the method i would be using.  The cheif scutineer  has the final say and no doubt would probally use the above methods, at sign in.  or UNLESS you are protested in the Top 3 and then employ there measuring method.     PM Dave tanner for the approved method employed by him if he is the cheif Scutineer for the nats you attending, or whoever is published as such at the event you entering.

[Nathan S]

yes. Dave Tanner told me the same.

If it ain't published, it's not MA's method.
 

[Marc.com]

Travel should relate to what you can Actually use out on the track. not what when diassembled is theoretical.  And i would suggest 99% of scrutineers would do the same thing to apply this RULE. 

Yep but you always get that 1% that won't. The method of measuring should be clearly posted, a sticky on the forum even, so that people can make sure they are in the right and avoid an ugly confrontation, or the costs associated with being rejected on the day.

[TM BILL]

yes. Dave Tanner told me the same.

If it ain't published, it's not MA's method.
 

Hallleluyah ma brother 

[TM BILL]

Travel should relate to what you can Actually use out on the track. not what when diassembled is theoretical.  And i would suggest 99% of scrutineers would do the same thing to apply this RULE. 

Yep but you always get that 1% that won't. The method of measuring should be clearly posted, a sticky on the forum even, so that people can make sure they are in the right and avoid an ugly confrontation, or the costs associated with being rejected on the day.

Exactly  and why would those in positions of power share the word 

Like all walks of life dissapointing as it is there will always be those who get a kick out of holding that bit of power ( no matter how small ) over others 

[Simo63]

Simo, I'll try and find the notes I made when I did Muz's bike. It may be on an old computer downstairs.

A couple of Nylon spacers under the damper rod heads and I think we replaced the top out springs with shorter ones. he runs fork springs of about 24lb/in and I think it was Motomaniac that mentioned the travel had to be reduced by 21mm, that rings a bell.
Due to the difference in travel between the rear axle and shock I think we put a 14mm thick clamp on the shock shaft under the bump stop.

I don't have the time to make the parts for you but I'll pass on the info, hopefully by the weekend.

And we did measure the rear travel with the axle as far back as possible.

Hi Brent.  I just wanted to say a big thank you for sending me that information via email.  I will review what you have suggested and see if I can ensure my 250D makes the 9 inch cut.  I wouldn't want to leave myself open to that 1% of scrutineers that thrive on POWER  so I will make the necessary changes so I don't feel like a dirty cheatin' bastard   

[tmman]

for your daily insight into human social interaction google stanforn prison experiment!!!! they even made a movie of it.. and it has been done in every country with the same results.. there's always 1% out there!!!

[motomaniac]

Wow i saw this post on page one and now passing through again its on like 15....

Travel should relate to what you can Actually use out on the track.

Great! When I finish my Steve Wise replica  pre 78 bike and I get queried I'll just come back with a - yer but can't prove that I used all that travel "

[JohnnyO]

Great! When I finish my Steve Wise replica  pre 78 bike and I get queried I'll just come back with a - yer but can't prove that I used all that travel "

Are you seriously building one Brent? I've just bought a Mugen kit from the UK and now have all the bits to build a replica of his '77 CR125..

[supersenior 50]

I am honoured, Slakey actually invited me to jump on to his thread. Maybe it's in the vain hope that when you become a Supersenior you automatically gain wisdom [WRONG]
I have no official capacity and am just the guy trying to pull an event together to give everyone a good time and fair racing.The instrument that determines what is fair for this meeting is the 2012 Manual. The person charged with initial interpretation and adjudication is the Eligibility Scrutineer for the meeting.Advice on interpretation on these rules can be sought from the Classic MX Commissioners.
So, to avoid hassles for yourself and others on the day ensure your bikes comply.
If your Pre78 suspension exceeds the rule and you don't want to change it I'm sure they would love to see you in the Evolution class at the Post Classic Nats.
Personal attacks on this forum are most unhelpfull, and in some instances libellous.
My observation is, yes we have experienced over pedantic scrutineers at times, but in the vast majority of cases the dramas are caused by entrants trying it on.They get caught out then rant and rave about the scrutineer or "the stupid rule"
Don't like the rule? Change it through the proper channels

[TM BILL]

I am honoured, Slakey actually invited me to jump on to his thread. Maybe it's in the vain hope that when you become a Supersenior you automatically gain wisdom [WRONG]
I have no official capacity and am just the guy trying to pull an event together to give everyone a good time and fair racing.The instrument that determines what is fair for this meeting is the 2012 Manual. The person charged with initial interpretation and adjudication is the Eligibility Scrutineer for the meeting.Advice on interpretation on these rules can be sought from the Classic MX Commissioners.
So, to avoid hassles for yourself and others on the day ensure your bikes comply.If your Pre78 suspension exceeds the rule and you don't want to change it I'm sure they would love to see you in the Evolution class at the Post Classic Nats.
Personal attacks on this forum are most unhelpfull, and in some instances libellous.
My observation is, yes we have experienced over pedantic scrutineers at times, but in the vast majority of cases the dramas are caused by entrants trying it on.They get caught out then rant and rave about the scrutineer or "the stupid rule"
Don't like the rule? Change it through the proper channels

Col i do believe with age comes wisdom , in most cases    and im sure your  Nats will be a huge sucsess 

All we want to do is comply , but NOBODY IN OFFICIAlDOM will say how the suspension is measured  We have had advise on how the AHRMA system works but no OFFICIAL word on how the MA system works .

WHY is it such a big secret  or is it because there is no official system and if not why not 

Remember it was Mr bigshot official who started this debate  Call it personall attacks libell or what you will , but if your gonna take an official role then come out with big arsed statements  , then be professional enough to provide answers when questioned or retract your statement .

How can any competitor at any event have confidence in the officials when they behave in this manner 

Ole mate would do well to remember that it is better to say nothing and let people think you are an Idiot , than open your mouth and prove them right 


Col you will run a kick arse event and i believe the spilt nats you worked hard for are the best thing that has happened to the sport in a long time . It would be nice to go into the new era with no old baggage , but this sort of thing wont help .

Please dont confuse whats being asked with blatent rule breaking or even those who want to push the boundries, i have no time for that . But the reality is that for sure on the competitor side there will be that element and on the official side there will always be one or two over zealous officials with their own agendas .

All we are asking for is Clarity


Can anybody in officialdom please explain how suspension travel is measured the official MA way 

Regards Bill.

[Simo63]

I'll agree with most of what TM Bill has said above and I think some things have been posted in this thread that maybe , given a few moments to consider them, shouldn't have been.

From my perspective I wasn't even aware my standard YZ250D didn't comply with the rules in relation to suspension travel.  And to be honest, I never bothered to look into it because I naively thought I had a pre 78 compliant bike.

I only bought into this discussion when, through this thread thankfully, I became aware that I might have an issue at the pre 78 nationals if I presented my stock bike.  I have never been one to push any technical boundaries (read: cheat) for any reason particularly not to gain an advantage over a fellow rider or riders and will endeavour to present my bike to scrutineering in a manner that it will comply.

I will admit to being somewhat annoyed that I have to spend time (and maybe money) to do that because I previously believed I didn't have an issue with meeting the GCR's or whatever they are called these days (people keep refering to MOMs??).  But that is only because I thought my bike was already compliant.  Now I know it's not I will remedy that.

Like I said, from my perspective there would never be an intention to cheat or present a bike that won't pass scrutineering either on a condition or technical viewpoint.  I don't, for a second, believe that I'm a good enough rider to be able to exploit the YZ's characteristics beyond it's standard potential so a modified bike (aside from my new PFR pipe that will hopefully smooth it's power only .. not increase it  isn't something I would pursue.

I purchased this bike as I just want to ride in the pre 78 class because that, evo and pre 85 are the eras that interest me.. nothing more.  Maybe it's because I'm also a muscle car collector but like them, I prefer my bikes totally stock standard.  But at the end of the day if I have to modify the bike to make it eligible that then I guess I just have to suck it up (didn't someone tell me that earlier in this thread  ) and make the suspension modifications.