Simons for pre 78?

[GMC]

Jikov’s statement came after some other statements that they would not change their bikes for the Nats.

Bill, you have asked a perfectly legit question and have been given some legit answers. You seem to have won a moral victory, you have pointed out another failing in the manual as I’m not aware of where it says how to measure travel.
Most of us already knew of such failings in the manual but I am always amazed at some of the trivial things some of you guys keep raising on this forum.
38.0 v 38.1  Who the hell would have thought of that when writing the rules?
MoM’s isn’t perfect and never will be.

As for Pre 78, it was intended as a class for the first evolution of long travel bikes.
MoM’s even says this.
A definition of 9/9 was used to determine what is early long travel and what is late long travel
It seems to me that rather than restrict the class to 2 years of models (75 & 76) someone decided it would be a good idea to let 77 models run as well if they could adhere to the 9.9 rule.
Logical when you consider that a lot of 77 models are the same as 76 models except for travel.
A good idea in theory but a bad idea in practice as it is awkward for the rider to comply and for the scrutineer to check.
Some choose to take this class as a literal Pre 78 class and some choose to accept it as a class meant for early design long travel bikes.
It’s more a case of a class that was badly named.
Pre 78, to steal a line for the Pirates of the Caribbean, is  “More of a guideline really”

Personally I couldn’t give a fat rats arse either way if the class is 9/9 or 10/10 but if there are so many that don’t like it then do something about it through the right channels.
Don’t shoot the messenger when you get to the event.

[supersenior 50]

Can we put this to bed and move on?
1 Michael Banford is not the Chief Eligibility Scrutineer for this event, so don't use that as an excuse for not entering or continuing the personal attacks.
2 The onus is on the entrant to prove compliance.If you need advice ask Dave Tanner, Chairman CMX Commission [see post203]
3 Simo63 Reply 204 asks "What sort of people are making these rules--" People just like you Simo, and it is people just like you who have to actually initiate change through your club, state body etc.,if you think thereis need for change.
4 The definitive measurement system as given by both the CMX Commission Chairman and the Chief Eligibility Scrutineer for this event is:-
         Rear--Remove both shocks,with rear wheel suspended.
                  Remove spring from one shock and re-install.
                  Measure vertically the difference at the axle between fully extended and fully compressed with the rider's full weight (incl normal compression of the bump stop)
Same for single shock bike.
         Front With bike suspended, remove top caps and measure difference between fully extended and fully compressed.
         It's not complicated.
         If in doubt about your machine check it before you leave home so you can enjoy your racing with peace of mind.

[Simo63]

Can we put this to bed and move on?
1 Michael Banford is not the Chief Eligibility Scrutineer for this event, so don't use that as an excuse for not entering or continuing the personal attacks. Don't know the guy but based on his posts in this topic I think that's great news

2 The onus is on the entrant to prove compliance.If you need advice ask Dave Tanner, Chairman CMX Commission [see post203] Do you have his email address?

3 Simo63 Reply 204 asks "What sort of people are making these rules--" People just like you Simo, and it is people just like you who have to actually initiate change through your club, state body etc.,if you think thereis need for change.  I disagree.  If it were people like me then common sense would prevail so that a stock standard 1977 model bike would be eligible without needing to limit it's suspension.  If that means that some bikes are better suited to the class then fine .. that's exactly what it meant back in the day as well.

4 The definitive measurement system as given by both the CMX Commission Chairman and the Chief Eligibility Scrutineer for this event is:-
         Rear--Remove both shocks,with rear wheel suspended.
                  Remove spring from one shock and re-install.
                  Measure vertically the difference at the axle between fully extended and fully compressed with the rider's full weight (incl normal compression of the bump stop)
Same for single shock bike.  Are you suggesting that I might be required to dismantle my bike at scrutineering because from as you have already stated, the onus is on me to prove it complies??  I'm in it for fun and not interested in stripping the bike at scrutineering at all.  I think I'll just forget it.  

     Front With bike suspended, remove top caps and measure difference between fully extended and fully compressed.
         It's not complicated.
         If in doubt about your machine check it before you leave home so you can enjoy your racing with peace of mind.

L

[Marc.com]

4 The definitive measurement system as given by both the CMX Commission Chairman and the Chief Eligibility Scrutineer for this event is:-
         Rear--Remove both shocks,with rear wheel suspended.
                  Remove spring from one shock and re-install.
                  Measure vertically the difference at the axle between fully extended and fully compressed with the rider's full weight (incl normal compression of the bump stop)

Good Answer Col, pity you didn't arrive earlier we could have saved 10 pages of discussion. Now back to the Simons, I get the impression as long as they are reduced to 9" of travel then the 0.1 of a milimeter above 38 is not going to be an issue.

[Freakshow]

TMBILLY - now might be a good time for a break,  hop into the he shed and pack up my 2 valve for posting, it will be great therapy   

[TM BILL]

TMBILLY - now might be a good time for a break,  hop into the he shed and pack up my 2 valve for posting, it will be great therapy   

Sorry freaky the charity jobs are 2nd tier ATM  all i wanted was a simple answer witch Col has provided  

In life im am more than happy to play by the rules  but i expect those who make, and those who enforce the rules to have their ducks in order 

[Davey Crocket]

He cant pack up your 2 valver yet Freaky, when I'm over for the Johnny Old with Brad in a few weeks, the 3 of us are gonna flog it around the Taupo MX track and see how it goes.

[supersenior 50]

to Simo63 hope this helps:-
2 You can PM David on this forum
3 Ordinary licence holders like you and I (having common sence or not) can initiate change. After all that's how Pre78 came about in the first place.The suspension rule (good or bad) has been there since inception of the class.A bit late to be huffing and puffing about the rule three months out from an event.
4 It is unlikely you"ll be called on to prove eligibility unless there's a protest (which is also unlikely).In spite of all the froth and bubble on this forum, in recent times those protested have generally been trying it on.Sometimes a protest can clear the air.For example Tony Cavelles 250 Pre65 BSA was legitimately protested in Tas. re engine capacity.It was torn down and found to be kosher.A lot of Noise went on about people who protest, but in fact it cleared the air, stopped all back of the pits mumbling and showed how good dad Bert's bike prep was and how good a rider Tony was.
It would be a shame if you let this prevent you participating, but only you will lose by it.Pehaps you could help us out as a flaggy if you don't ride.

[TM BILL]

For my all carrying on  i hope nobody gives the nats a miss for any reason. This new breed of nats promises to provide some great competition and a track that will really suit the older bikes 

While my frustration has been vented in this thread that was in no way a dig at what promises to be the best nats yet. Hopefully common sense will prevail as the people behind this event are good people and enthusiast like us this side of the track.

As far as the pre 78 rules go, it as has been pointed out if we feel strongly enough then its up to us to canvass people and try to get things changed through the appropriate channels.

I stand by my opinions i have voiced, but Superseniors intervention has made me think about the bigger picture . Supersenior (Col ) put a lot of time effort and thought into making these new nats a reality and has shown that the little people can effect change if they are prepared to put in the time 

See you at the Nats

Bill

[maico police]

So can I use Simons on my Pre 78? 

[mainline]

So can I use Simons on my Pre 78? 

Patience, an answer can't be too far away.

[Snowy 76]

Good Question.

[Simo63]

to Simo63 hope this helps:-
2 You can PM David on this forum
3 Ordinary licence holders like you and I (having common sence or not) can initiate change. After all that's how Pre78 came about in the first place.The suspension rule (good or bad) has been there since inception of the class.A bit late to be huffing and puffing about the rule three months out from an event.
4 It is unlikely you"ll be called on to prove eligibility unless there's a protest (which is also unlikely).In spite of all the froth and bubble on this forum, in recent times those protested have generally been trying it on.Sometimes a protest can clear the air.For example Tony Cavelles 250 Pre65 BSA was legitimately protested in Tas. re engine capacity.It was torn down and found to be kosher.A lot of Noise went on about people who protest, but in fact it cleared the air, stopped all back of the pits mumbling and showed how good dad Bert's bike prep was and how good a rider Tony was.
It would be a shame if you let this prevent you participating, but only you will lose by it.Pehaps you could help us out as a flaggy if you don't ride.

Thanks for your advice super senior 50.  I'm not sure what difference it will make but I will PM "Dave" tonight if I get the chance (still at my 2nd job and just taking a break so might not get the chance).  Is his ID just Dave or is it DaveTanner or something else?

To be honest with a full time day job plus owning and operating 2 Franchised Pizza outlets 7 days a week (plus family with 3 kids etc) I don't have time to get involved in politics or clubs or much at all. In fact I'm lucky to find time to go for a ride (still miffed that I am going to miss QVMX sign on this weekend #$@^) so whilst I agree in principle with what you are saying re making changes, I'm neither inclined nor able to spend the time doing that.  However happy to support in any way that I can but it is easier for me to just change the bike.  I've already detailed in a previous post how I was more shocked that the bike I purchased specifically for pre 78 wasn't stricly legal in pre 78 ... and I acknowledged that was due to my ignorance and lack of research (Who would of thought you had to research to see if a pre 78 model bike actually complied with pre 78 class rules .. like I said before, the irony is just a bit much for me at times) but I'm glad that I found out now and not at scrutineering in a few months time.

Having said that though, I musn't be alone with my concerns as I've had a couple of requests from people I don't know (not hard I don't know many in this scene) looking for Brent's tips on lowering a YZ250D to make it class legal.  So I guess I'm not alone with my ignorance or concerns.  Of course if I wanted to try and cheat I wouldn't give a toss but I don't so that is why, only a few months out from the event .. one which I only found out about 2 weeks ago because I'm not enough into the scene and too busy, I'm "huffing and puffing" about my not class legal suspension .. although I didn't think I was actually huffing and puffing but I accept that from some perspectives it might appear that way.  Sorry for that.

So at the end of the day I'll either reduce the suspension travel to 9 inches or just not enter.  I certainly won't show up with an illegal bike and run the risk despite the fact that I agree with you that I won't be protested.  I doubt I would be protested either but it's more the getting through scrutineering that concerns me particularly after 69ers comments.

Anyway enough from me on this, I've got pizzas to make so back to the original question .. what was that again?  Oh yeah something about Gene Simmons??

[Davey Crocket]

211 kawasaki is who you are looking for simmo

[holeshot buddy]

what col said is correct its not an issue unless
you get protested
you dont get elegibility scrutineered at scrutineering just full safety compliance
so if you have a standard bike which has 1 inch more travel
i wouldnt loose any sleep over it