Flag Marshalls Australia wide.

[ba-02-xr]

 In Moree we have all types of organisations do the flagging. From schools to dance groups. We avoid the rural fire service as if they get a call out we can't race, SES is in the same boat. We have tried the local scouts but they have trouble finding enough people over 18. We charge the riders $10, $15 for a family. This money goes to the organisation but is capped at $1000. Ok this is not VMX so we probly have more troble getting flaggies . Little Johnny who is 16 needs both mum & dad there to hold his hand between motos as he can't even arrange how to get to the toilets .

[Canam370]

No comment on the remote system?

[VMX247]

No comment on the remote system?

These costs for a VMX club are too much...remembering members vote and pay for all club items/issues..
How many flaggies are you running with, on any one club run..??
If the track is mostly Natural Terrian you should be able to see the next flaggie in line of site..Cutting back the flaggies to say 5 or 6 on a club run ??
cheers A

[huskibul]

    For what it's worth i think paying pre arranged/ trained  flaggie's is the only way to go ! but you dont want to throw the baby out with the bathwater wouldnt $5 or so per rider cover it ? Keeping everyone happy

[firko]

When we used to rent Amaroo Park in the early days of VMX, track management, the Australian Racing Drivers Club had a tie in with what I think was called the 'Flag Marshals League' to officiate at all Amaroo road race meetings. We used them a few times but for reasons I can't remember stopped using them and began using our own club members....and eventually falling into the same old predicament Viper and other clubs experience today.

I Googled the 'Flag Marshals League' and other deriritives of that name but came up with zilch. Do they still exist? I recall them being enthusiastic and very professional in their white overalls (pre dayglo OH&S requirement days). Hiring them might have been a bit on the expensive side (can't remember) but it took the heartache out of that part of race day organising.

No comment on the remote system?

Maybe it contravenes OH&S requirements I don't know if it does or not though, just thinking aloud.

[2 shocks]

Back in the earlier days at Blue Rock we utilised the CFA from the local area & donated to them $5.00 per rider, breakfast & lunch was also provided. At the end of the year when all expenses had been accounted for, we would make another donation as a suggestion of appreciation on behalf of the Club, but unfortunately, as some of them were getting on in years, and not forgetting they too were volunteers, it became quite difficult for them and the fact that they themselves struggled to recruit new members, hence they were not able to assist our club any longer. It was also noted that out of the Black Saturday Royal Commission the CFA were no longer permitted to be used for such events, obviously as outlined in earlier posts due to O H & S. Race Solutions were also another option and from my understanding they are mostly committed to National Events, Vic Titles, Gippy Centre & The Superbikes.  Another suggestion made to us was the "Prisoners on the run Program" scary thought, but I think this also fell under the O H & S umbrella. We have also tried a few different avenues as suggested by our local council, but to no avail as we couldnt get anyone to commit let alone be reliable enough to turnup on the day, so this is why our riders now work on a roster system at our practice & club days and although it does work well, some still have a whinge & try to weavel their way out of it. Wherever we go, we will continue to wish for an easier solution, but until then, this issue isnt going to be an easy fix. 

Dawn Baker

[BAHNZY]

I would like to build or see built, use the same system as Formula 1 build up a yellow flashing system which would be mounted on each corner, and use a wireless controlled panel that is controlled by one person at the finishing line or commentary box.

Just questions;

What happens where the marshals box is located in an area where they can't see the whole track?
Can a single, or even two, individuals be responsible for what maybe in the norm, five or six flaggies?
Would a light system be considered an obstacle and therefore must be a designated distance from the racing line?
Who makes the determination of where the lights should be placed?
How do you power it? If by battery who is responsible for charging batteries the previous day?
Who is going to store and transfer the equipment?
What happens if it fails mid race program?
How does a light system deal with;
- What should be a red cross on white background flag?
- The difference between a waving yellow flag and a stationary flag?
- A race that has been red flagged?

[BAHNZY]

Its not for MA to manage at club and interclub level

Alison,
It’s not about what happens on the day, it’s about the issue in general. If it is such a problem Australia wide, then MA should have it tabled at its motocross & motocross subcommittee meetings for it to be discussed, particularly if it perilously close to bringing the sport to its knees. I haven’t got enough toes and fingers to count the amount of times that I have left riders briefing not knowing when the first race will start because the organising club can’t get enough flag marshals together. On more than one occasion we have forgone racing on the day to flag or marshal in one way or another.

Perhaps MA might be able to put in place some actions to gather ideas & solutions from other disciplines and parts of the world to find a solution or part thereof.
 

[Viper65]

If you can buy a modern motocrosser $10-13,000 or your $5000 vintage motocrosser, buy a $120 rear tyre, put petrol in your car and your motorbike, and some takeaway food along the way ($120 x 2 for return journey), and expect to pay $50 for a race entry fee to spend the whole day racing and sitting on your a#se - if you can spend all that money then why not another $50 each for a flaggy on race day.  6 Viper races a year = $300 - the same cost as your MA licence, or a transponder etc.

Most of us blokes are sitting on more than one motorbike in the shed so we are obviously prepared to spend money on this sport.  We just need to accept there is an extra cost now and put everything into perspective.  Racing is not cheap and you don't get something for nothing these days.

Or we could not race at all and save our money, look at the bikes in the shed and take up golf - and then complain about green fees (no flaggies required on a golf course).

Just have a look in your shed and count up the amount of money sitting in motorbikes and gear you have acquired over the years... isn't it worth it?  One less slab of beer - there's your $50!

I think the flaggies need to be paid.  I know from experience that it might be fun to sit on a corner for an hour but after that it gets dam boring and I am more than happy to pay to see that job done by someone else! 

[maico police]

Good point Steve .

The above comment is my personal observation and is in no way intended to be veiwed by that of Viper, its members, accociates or sponsors. It should not be veiwed as a forthcoming changing of the running of Viper, VCM or CMX. Any people who feel affronted by said comment should contact MA, their club secretataries or alternatively GFT's
Writen and spoken by Ross NImmo on behalf of the "Let's all get our heads out of the sand party".

[oldyzman]

Maybe have a draw for a few slabs of beer and a bottle of scotch at trophy presentation time.

I will do it as i get older and the bones cannot race anymore weather its paid or not.
Cheers Brett

[John Orchard]

No comment on the remote system?

Paul they use to run remote activated lights at the Broadford roadrace track, flashing amber or constant red; I think they got ripped up during some earth-works; that was about 20 years ago.

It seemed to work, I guess as long as the controller can see all the track.

[Gippslander]

Viper66, was with you all the way.... til you said.... "One less slab of beer"  

Seriously, you are spot on, we have to face the fact that if the days of volunteering have gone it has to be paid for and if it's 10 x $300 (at labour hire rates) that's $3000 = $30 each if there's 100 riders or $40 each if there's 75 riders and so on.

But... maybe... there is a middle of the road solution...

1.  Say to the host club "We will pay you $100 extra for each flaggie you supply".

That is less than the $300 per flaggie labour hire cost and the money stays within the ranks, and you just add the extra cost to the entry fees, you would need to estimate the expected number of riders but it may come out at say $65 entry fee including flaggie levy.

And anybody who does not want to pay the flaggie levy for every meeting during the year has to agree to put their name on a rotating roster so that as extra flaggies are required they will be in order required to do that work a half-day at a time, and where they miss a race or two because they are doing their half day flaggie duty they get the same points for the round they missed as for the round that they did in the other half of the day.

[Canam370]

No comment on the remote system?

Paul they use to run remote activated lights at the Broadford roadrace track, flashing amber or constant red; I think they got ripped up during some earth-works; that was about 20 years ago.

It seemed to work, I guess as long as the controller can see all the track.

If the system is portable then if its use is appropriate for a circuit then thats one less meeting where the flaggie issue can raise its head. The control needn't be at a control tower. Not all corners are visible to all marshalls anyway, just put the live observers in the worst/hidden spots. Placement of lights would be per regs where you'd put a marshall anyway.The system could be the property of VIPER to be utilised for the members, not a single club. Might be able to rent it out too.
 Bahnsy, if the system failed halfway through a meeting and no-one wanted to help then, yes, we can all go home. What do you do if there's no ambulance at the track halfway through the meet-thats harder to deal with and we all go home. What if.....
 There would be issues to sort out but it can be looked at if the idea has merit.
 

[Freakshow]

i thought flGGIES ONLY NEEDED TO BE OVER 16..... only the 4 key officials need to be over 18.   Approach the scouts and so on and get them to do half days ... surely dontating them $200 is better for them than doing a sausage sizzle at bunnings on a sat...