Author Topic: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????  (Read 8952 times)

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Offline Marc.com

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2011, 10:15:53 pm »
I forgot to add with being so isolated we still attract between 50-100 riders per meet and they run every third week, I think approximately 12 events during a season.  not bad seeing as we very seldom if ever see an interstate rider

I think WA does things differently but works really well, with a focus on a good days ride, no trophy's no ego, I know when I rode with T&E we could double the number of riders if we slung in a non competition class and the Adventure Rally would get hundreds.

I am not saying drop the racing but if you target the events and be pragmatic you could scoop up the non racing and attract the guys retiring from modern MX.
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Offline worms

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2011, 07:52:38 am »
so all you guys are on VMX committees around Australia, so all these good or bad ideas go to the punters, so the sport can go forward.

or is it just all hot air waiting for someone else, like Col, to do it for you?  good question I think.

worms

Offline EML

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2011, 09:21:00 am »
between Col and Freaky, I reckon our future is safe :D :D :D

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2011, 01:04:20 pm »
Thats a joke, good joke  ??? :D :D :D :D :D

Offline Tossa

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2011, 03:50:45 pm »
I forgot to add with being so isolated we still attract between 50-100 riders per meet and they run every third week, I think approximately 12 events during a season.  not bad seeing as we very seldom if ever see an interstate rider

I think WA does things differently but works really well, with a focus on a good days ride, no trophy's no ego, I know when I rode with T&E we could double the number of riders if we slung in a non competition class and the Adventure Rally would get hundreds.


My father formed the T&E club and within 12months was the largest club in WA and still is because it caters for the non-racer
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Offline Kenneth S (222)

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2011, 10:54:53 am »
  Add to that the inability of some committees to recognise the potential & growth in the Pre85 & Pre90 classes, it doesn’t surprise me at all that “competitive numbers” at races are dwindling at such a fast rate.

Bang on I would say, finally what was not recognised is there has to be a cross over from modern MX to VMX at some point where the guys finishing their MX careers see VMX as a natural less serious, cheaper and less punishing alternative to riding moderns. If we want VMX to grow they are the riders that need to be targeted..... who knows retiring modern MX riders may lust to ride pre 65 bikes but I am not so sure ( has anyone ever asked them).... more likely they will want that 89 RM125 paddock basher they started on.

My idea is that the cut offs should advance annually, so next year it is possible to ride pre 91 dragging in another years worth of riders. With pre 78 and Classic classes we are really starting to move in that direction now. Then promote the shit out of VMX at modern meetings

New to this scene only a year ago, there is no doubt to me that a large number of riders including myself are reliving the great times they had 'back in the day' by not only racing, but cleaning, preparing & looking at their favorite old bikes. It only makes sense that as we get older, what we want to get out of this movement will change.

marcFX I think you have highlighted a very good point. There is no status quo in life. Like any organisation or movement the VMX movement is either improving or it is declining. I think that if some of club officials restrict their membership to people who raced in the 60s, 70s & early 80s it is a dangerous call to make and inevitable the movement will die out as the riders fade away for various reasons.

While I love dirt bikes and I'm having fun, the experience could certainly be better for me. At the moment being a 1 bike owner it is annoying to put so much time & effort into preparing the bike & gear, packing up all the gear, getting to the meeting, organizing accommodation & cleaning the bike afterwards, then at some meetings I can only race a total of 14 laps! 2 x 4 lap races and 2 x 3 lap races. That is a lot of work for not enough 'time on the bike'!

Perhaps a solution for one club to cater to most people's needs is to grow as the potential audience grows but still cater for the needs of the original older guys by splitting the meetings between eras. Instead of 9 'all in' meetings a year, have something like this, 4 x separate points score meetings for the Four-strokes, Pre 65, Pre 70, Pre 75, & the Pre 78s & 4 x separate points score meetings for , Evolution, Pre 85s & Pre 90s & perhaps Pre 95. Ending the year with a Gala, 1 x 2 day all in Year End Final meeting & presentation.

The points score for each class could then be split over 5 rounds (perhaps double at the Year End event), lessening the burden on those who don't want to or can't make it to ride 9 events but still want to have the occasional race and factor in the points.

At the meetings you would then have extra time to have a more relaxed format, time for a 'Garage Queen' event & trophy, more time for the races (longer races for the younger and fitter guys), more races for your chosen class (especially if you are a 1 bike owner.) & Maybe  an end of meeting all in 'Cast Iron Man' longer race for those who still need more riding time.

This would certainly work better for me. I would get more ride time for the huge effort I put into getting to the race meeting. If I had a year of busy commitments outside racing, I would only have to reserve 5 weekends a year to race the full years series. If I was free to race many events, as I already have an Evo bike I could get a pre 78 and race that series as well.

Those guys & gals who need more than 5 race meetings a year have these other events like Mr VMX, the NSW titles and the like to race or they could buy 2 bikes, which from what I can see is already fairly common.
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Offline firko

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2011, 12:59:04 pm »
I'm more than convinced that less is best when it comes to VMX racing.

As with many things in life, the more we do something, the less 'special' it becomes. By running such a large number of rounds we run the risk of VMX overkill, too much of the same old, same old. Penrith club fell into that trap back in the 90's, running four VMX and four VDT meets per year. Eventually the rigors of travel, wear and tear on machinery and the costs involved, added to the apathy created by meetings becoming clones of each other, caused a rather abrupt drop in entries. Unfortunately it seems that the drop off in entries experienced by Penrith 12 years ago is being repeated today.

With Classic Dirt firmly entrenched as a 'must do' event, the Broadford Bonanza also gaining ground as another premier event, the Nats being split into two separate meetings and Mr VMX emerging as a potential marquee event, the keen NSW VMX enthusiast has 14 meetings to take up the six month race season. That equates to roughly a meeting per fortnight and that doesn't take any of the big vintage dirt track meets like the Nats and Penrith Charity meeting into the picture. Add them and you've got a minimum of sixteen ways to get your VMX fix.

I'm presuming that most competitors have family and other social comittments and a limited disposable income so no matter how devoted to the sport they are, they'll eventually begin to pick and choose the events that fit into their lifestyle and financial situation. Only the keenest, more financially comfortable and less family committed can play the full series, the result being that most of the club rounds will potentially have less than full entry lists.

In my 26 years of VMX involvement I've seen all sorts of ways of getting people to enter a meeting and in the end I reckon that it's the special meetings that will always draw the crowd. The legendary Condoblin Greybeards meeting from the 90's drew 200+ entries every year to a dull, nondescript little coutry town in the middle of NSW purely because the meeting was something special, it had a vibe like no other. It was what the sport was all about, a mix of dirt track on Saturday, motocross on Sunday and some of the best, hard core partying in between. 12 years later the 'something special' meeting is still the way to get 'em back. Using HEAVENS schedule as an example, the Canowindra Showground meeting and the Crawford River Classic show the best potential to be promoted as 'have to do' events. Pick two more from the remaining 7 rounds, drop the less popular and put full club promotional effort into pushing the two 'Marquee Meetings' and the other two events. Combine those four with Classic Dirt (in NSW next year), Mr VMX and both Nats and Classic Dirt / Broadford Bonanza and you've got a well spaced six meetings that won't eat up as much of your home brownie points and hard earned dollars. That schedule is a logical mix of racing and play riding events and leaves the odd weekend to race both big dirt track meetings if one wishes.

I'm totally convinced that a smaller, smartly run series with feature meetings hyped up will help to draw much larger entries. The huge number of bikes and riders at Classic Dirt and HBBB show that the VMX enthusiast scene is extremely healthy overall. We just need to offer those potential racers something attractive, a good reason to go to the races.  As I said in my previous post, this isn't intended as a criticism of HEAVEN (or VIPER) so don't jump down my throat. I'm merely using HEAVEN'S meeting schedule as an example showing that by simplifying the schedule and drumming up the promotion, the punters will come back in droves.


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Offline Graeme M

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2011, 03:59:15 pm »
I agree wholeheartedly. When clubs like VIPER and HEAVEN appeared back in the late 90s/early 2000s, there were no other real options. But today there are just so many meetings, and some of those suffer with low entry numbers. A shorter series of several well run, blue ribbon race meetings combined with several high profile non-competitive outings would be ideal. And it'd be nice to see some decent vintage DT meetings as well.

Sure the committed racers may find that fewer meetings don't suit them, but then I think the positives would make up for that. Increased participation, lower stress on promoting clubs, more affordable racing.  And it would be easier to really promote/publicise fewer meetings too.

However I guess I am speaking from some level of ignorance as the evidence appears to be that things are just fine in WA and Qld, and perhaps not too bad for clubs like VCM and CSC in Victoria?

Offline Rossvickicampbell

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2011, 04:18:11 pm »
Graeme - whilst things aren't too bad in WA really there isn't  a lot of choice either (not a complaint WA a comment).  Lots of meetings to be had but the "marquee" one as Firko speaks about is Wandering where everybody comes out of the closet  ;D
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Offline worms

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2011, 05:55:40 pm »
you guys can sure type,

I just think its a reflextion, is the cup half full or half empty?

it will grow some, then it will wane a bit, a changing of the gaurd, sort of thing.


if only i were a wordsmith,

cheers worms

Offline VMX247

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2011, 06:05:33 pm »
1:Surley the series/round cost of the trophies involved could be cancelled for a year and that money go back into the club members to get a legend rider inn etc.
2:Better placement and less of such officals:ie scorers/officals.
The way I look at the east coast vmx/evo/retro its run like our modern,not that there is anything wrong with that.Its just that committee's are workin there butts off all year  :P

Graeme - whilst things aren't too bad in WA really there isn't  a lot of choice either (not a complaint WA a comment).  Lots of meetings to be had but the "marquee" one as Firko speaks about is Wandering where everybody comes out of the closet  ;D

Pre85's had a full calender in 2011..They where invited to alot of premier events  :)
Watch this 2012 calender -everytime you come back on shore Rosco, ya better have that stead ready  ;D


« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 06:38:53 pm by VMX247 »
Best is in the West !!

Offline BAHNZY

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2011, 09:20:10 pm »
For now forget about competitor costs (bike & entry), forget about the class structure even forget about competitive Vs non competitive events, look to the foundation of the competition side of the sport and you will find what I believe to be the crux of the situation, the MA associated costs, the clubs and the committees that run them.

Using Victoria as an example, the ability to secure a track and the infrastructure to support a VMX event in most recent times has become extremely difficult. Unless you have an insider within the respective club you can almost forget about it. If not for people like Dawn, Mick & Sagg’s amongst others within their respective clubs, you wouldn’t even get an event of the ground.

The cost for a MA race day permit is $400 for an Interclub permit and a further $300 ($700) for an Open permit. Add the costs to prepare the track along with obtaining a first aid provider on site and an organising club is probably staring down the barrel of $1000 to $1500 just to stage the event. If you’re hoping to attract 60 riders to an event then $20 plus dollars of the typical $50 entry fee is gone. Add to that any addition costs such as trophies and water trucks then any money that the club could make in profit, to return back into the club for capital works, has evaporated.  It’s no wonder that clubs politely decline the offer to run a competitive event.

Then the club has to battle with local councils regarding how many days they can actually run in a given year, so why would a strong modern motocross club give up one of their allocated days to host a VMX event that they get nothing out of.

And the last hurdle, the true bloods, the heart of a motocross club, the volunteers. The people who we ask to  stand on a corner in either stinking hot sun sucking in dust or getting wet to the bone on a rain soaked day (rarely do we have something in between nowadays) to officiate on our day of fun. Getting these people has become almost impossible and has been the cause for more than a few race days to be cancelled.

Think past the race schedule/program, how much it costs for the competitor on race day and the preparation of the bike and look to the foundation issues within the sport that have bought about a discussion such as this.
Rod (BAHNZY) Bahn

Offline marshallmech

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2011, 10:30:38 pm »
I think you have hit the nail on the head Banhzy we have had this problem all year the clubs say they  will hold a round as long as we all bring someone to help Flaggie. Most riders come by themselves and ride back to back races or have two bikes just to make the day viable in terms of track time,  its a bit hard to help and then  work on bikes or have a rest.
A few riders do try to help some have even missed races to do so, others say why should I help when I have payed to race and the club is getting the money and useing the paying riders to help. Even on club practice day you must bring a person to help or miss one practice and do it your self.
Whats the answer I dont Know maybe cheaper track permits for Vintage meetings or something who knows?
I am in no way bagging the clubs here as Viper has had great support from clubs over the years and they are in the same boat even on club days.One of our rounds was cancelled this year as the club could only get 5 or 6 people to help out on the day ?
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Offline VMX247

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2011, 11:23:35 pm »
Mr Bahnzy,looks like it all comes down to an accumulation of issues to weather VMX has reached its peak or not,so perhaps the answer is that we are on a plateau at the moment..
Nothing wrong with that of course, just means we have to dig in,help out,support each other and put a bit of extra effort in.....not that hard  8)
cheers A
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Offline Stevo17

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Re: VMX HAS IT REACHED ITS PEAK ?????
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2011, 09:03:42 am »
Having been a Heaven member for many years and a Viper member for the last two, I have seen how things are done differently in each state.  I didn't get to many Viper races this year and am guilty for not helping out the numbers.  I think that having VCM and Viper as two seperate entities is a mistake.  If there was one organisation using tracks that were vintage friendly then the numbers would be much higher - making the events more financially viable.  Race day formats and flagging arrangements like Heaven have would certainly help with issues such as flag marshalls.   I really like the two day format that Heaven have where the Saturday can be a free ride day and Sunday being the race day.