Are VMX races too short? I think they are.

[firko]

While I agree that the 10 minute moto is the way to go, and can see merit in having the same 10 minutes for over fifties we have to remember that the fitness drops off dramatically after fifty, no matter how much running or gym time is put in, it's called old age :'(. I know there's exceptions like the amazing Boagy and even old Bill Watson in WA  but I reckon your average 55-65 year old rider is starting to feel it pretty well at 5 minutes. I have a number of  55-65 year old racer mates that work at their fitness but will freely admit that at 55 you're fitness takes a bit of a dive. We see it in Golden Oldies rugby, the fifty year olds are still ready to stick it to the 35 year old 'young blokes' but by 55 they're putting their hands up to be replaced much sooner or looking to step down a division. We should be finding ways of keeping the old fella's involved in the Nats, not giving them reasons not to enter.

Seeing that age groups are being re introduced, perhaps we could have the 10 minute moto system for all of the all age-capacity classes but have some sort of sliding scale for the age classes with the younger under 30 and under 40 age groups stay at 10 minutes, over 50 7 minutes and over 60 and 'Super Seniors' 5 minutes. That way all ages and all levels are catered for yet the fit and serious guys still get their 10 minute races in the all age races.....a win win for all.

[head]

I can't wait to race EVO over 50 and if the rest of the field can't do 10 minutes they will have to ride slower to conserve energy at their pace. Win Win for everyone then. We are talking about a National title and 10 minutes is not to much to ask for. Enjoy the ride and ride within yourself and all will be happy.

[TM BILL]

I can't wait to race EVO over 50 and if the rest of the field can't do 10 minutes they will have to ride slower to conserve energy at their pace. Win Win for everyone then. We are talking about a National title and 10 minutes is not to much to ask for. Enjoy the ride and ride within yourself and all will be happy.

I wonder if you will be of the same opinion when you are in your late 50s 

I have 18 months till i turn 50 and like yourself i currently enjoy longer races and find i dont tire as some do . However i dont know if i will feel the same in 10yrs time 

Firkos suggestion of a sliding scale i think is a great idea and could work well.

[ted]

I agree 10 minutes is a good race length, even for the plus fifty age group. I will be 50 next year and more than happy to ride 10 min plus a lap. That is what true motocross is all about. I find its the younger blokes that get tired with the longer races anyway.

Then with the longer track time you will pass a tiring Kody W.

Congrats on last weekend Neil...Top effort

[Kenneth S (222)]

Unless transponders are mandated, and riders are prepared to accept the costs associated with them so that organizing clubs and associations can combine classes and not have arguments over who finished where, then 3 & 4 lap races will be the norm to fit the ridiculous amount of classes into a single race day. It is simple arithmetic, divide the amount of minutes it takes to complete a lap into a 6 to 7 hour program. Add a % time contingency for starting and finishing a race then you will have the amount of laps that can be completed in a day. Then it's just a matter of spreading the laps into how many classes you want to run. See easy. Just hope it doesn't rain or get so dusty you have to stop the schedule to water the track or god forbid that someone crashes hurts themselves and stops racing.

If you try to fit it all in one day then yes, there is only so much you can fit in. Perhaps there could be some longer races run on the Saturday afternoon for the most popular classes. These race weekends are a weekend event anyway with most people turning up Friday night or Saturday morning, so if we are all investing the time and effort why not make the best of the weekend and make it a 2 day event. I for one would be happy to pay double the entry fee to cover the extra costs to race a 2 day meeting with longer motos and a decent practice session Saturday morning. Looking around at the pits, the multiple bikes many have and the expensive trick bits most seem to bolt on, I think it would be a minority who would find it difficult to pay that little bit extra.

I wonder if the question has been officially asked of most club members, "How long would you like the races to be?" If 70-80% come back and say 10 minutes plus 1 lap something should probably change in the event planning to suit the club members wants.

[Kenneth S (222)]

I agree 10 minutes is a good race length, even for the plus fifty age group. I will be 50 next year and more than happy to ride 10 min plus a lap. That is what true motocross is all about. I find its the younger blokes that get tired with the longer races anyway.

Agreed, the young blokes are good at starts and sprint races but in longer races we have the opportunity to use our experience and cunning to wear them down.

[Kenneth S (222)]

While I agree that the 10 minute moto is the way to go, and can see merit in having the same 10 minutes for over fifties we have to remember that the fitness drops off dramatically after fifty, no matter how much running or gym time is put in, it's called old age :'(. I know there's exceptions like the amazing Boagy and even old Bill Watson in WA  but I reckon your average 55-65 year old rider is starting to feel it pretty well at 5 minutes. I have a number of  55-65 year old racer mates that work at their fitness but will freely admit that at 55 you're fitness takes a bit of a dive. We see it in Golden Oldies rugby, the fifty year olds are still ready to stick it to the 35 year old 'young blokes' but by 55 they're putting their hands up to be replaced much sooner or looking to step down a division. We should be finding ways of keeping the old fella's involved in the Nats, not giving them reasons not to enter.

Seeing that age groups are being re introduced, perhaps we could have the 10 minute moto system for all of the all age-capacity classes but have some sort of sliding scale for the age classes with the younger under 30 and under 40 age groups stay at 10 minutes, over 50 7 minutes and over 60 and 'Super Seniors' 5 minutes. That way all ages and all levels are catered for yet the fit and serious guys still get their 10 minute races in the all age races.....a win win for all.

Firko maybe you are onto something here but a more simplistic approach might achieve the same outcome. It seems, I am not sure about this and I am sure there are exemptions but, it seems that most of us are riding similar bikes to the bikes we rode back in the day. If that is the case then chances are the average age of the guys riding pre 75 is going to be older then that of the guys riding pre 78, then Evo and so on. The guys I know who ride Pre 85 for example are 40-45. How does this sound? The organizers plan something like this, 4 lap races for Pre 75 and Pre 78, 5 lap races for Evo and 6 lap races for Pre 85 and the All in class. That way those of us who want longer races regardless of age could get a pre 85 bike and race Pre 85.

[albrid-3]

I like that idea, 4 laps is a good sound number, for pre75 classes. as I am 55 years old, and still think that I can use the younger riders for traction, but only in the first lap, on a serious note 4 laps would be ok.

[JohnnyO]

I like that idea, 4 laps is a good sound number, for pre75 classes. as I am 55 years old, and still think that I can use the younger riders for traction, but only in the first lap, on a serious note 4 laps would be ok.

4 laps is a real hit and a miss..some vmx tracks are only just over a minute a lap and others are 2+ minutes long.
10 mins is the better way of determining a race length..

[Kenneth S (222)]

I like that idea, 4 laps is a good sound number, for pre75 classes. as I am 55 years old, and still think that I can use the younger riders for traction, but only in the first lap, on a serious note 4 laps would be ok.

4 laps is a real hit and a miss..some vmx tracks are only just over a minute a lap and others are 2+ minutes long.
10 mins is the better way of determining a race length..

Good Point
Pre 75 & 78, 10 Minutes plus 1 lap,
Evo, 12 minutes plus 1 lap,
Pre 85, 15 Minutes plus 1 Lap?

[JohnnyO]

I like that idea, 4 laps is a good sound number, for pre75 classes. as I am 55 years old, and still think that I can use the younger riders for traction, but only in the first lap, on a serious note 4 laps would be ok.

4 laps is a real hit and a miss..some vmx tracks are only just over a minute a lap and others are 2+ minutes long.
10 mins is the better way of determining a race length..

Good Point
Pre 75 & 78, 10 Minutes plus 1 lap,
Evo, 12 minutes plus 1 lap,
Pre 85, 15 Minutes plus 1 Lap?

That's probably how it should be mate as the more modern bikes should be less tiring to ride but rider age may have to be factored into that for the old boys...

[odd1]

first round 12mins + 1 lap
second round 10mins +1lap
third round 8mins +1lap

[ted]

I like that idea, 4 laps is a good sound number, for pre75 classes. as I am 55 years old, and still think that I can use the younger riders for traction, but only in the first lap, on a serious note 4 laps would be ok.

4 laps is a real hit and a miss..some vmx tracks are only just over a minute a lap and others are 2+ minutes long.
10 mins is the better way of determining a race length..

Good Point
Pre 75 & 78, 10 Minutes plus 1 lap,
Evo, 12 minutes plus 1 lap,
Pre 85, 15 Minutes plus 1 Lap?

So will the Pre 85 guys pay 50% more than Pre 75 for the extra track time

[head]

Thanks Ted. I don't think I'll ever catch Kody even if I had all day. He doesn't get tired.

[35elsinore]

Sadly being across the border and fitting my kids agendas in I dont get to race you eastern state legends unless its the nats. I find my bikes dont come out the shed unless its race days so the fitness is no so good but to add my bit, I find after two laps I feel nackered but from that point on seem to feel better right up until its time to get off and push. So I would prefere longer races than say an extra round or even  say a alcomers race at the end of the day. Once my round races are over I tend to think either Ive had a good day and its time to quit or Ive had a bad day and its time to quit. Hope all that makes sense and not off the point. Certainly a 50 year old to a 59 year is a huge diffence compared to earlier age groups. Not that spectators count that much but shorter races are better to watch as everyone is so much closer. 10 mins + 1 should be a min.